American Based (Are We That Unworthy?)

[maisweh]

japanophile. thats what it comes down to. i can care less what japanese guy you trained under (unless its hatsumi, but thats a totally different discussion) martial arts is about kicking and punching, hence the "martial," not this deep understanding of life or anything philosophical. i would rather learn from someone in shape who can teach me something useful than an overweight couch potato sensei who thinks bloodsport is real, that he can throw ki balls at me, and thinks ashida kim is a god, regardless of who your japanese instructor is. seminars and tournaments are usually open to the public anyway, or anyone with cash.

[kensei]

Let's not forget there are some "brands" of Karate that were created in mainland Japan by merging the Okinawan Karate with arts indigenous to Mainland Japan - Namely Wado-ryu and Kyokushin.

So to suggest that mainland Japan was merely a "pit stop" along the way isn't entirely accurate.

K.

Very True about the Wado style and a few others. I dont believe that Kyokushin merged with anything other than shotokan and Goju however....so it kind of fits in as well...but not really....

[kensei]

I am not one of those guys that thinks you must go to Japan or train with Japanese instructors. I have trained under Japanese instructors and they are good, but my instructor is good and he is an Irish Canadian!

Traveling to Japan would be great, but traveling to Ottawa to train would be great too!

[Kusotare]

i can care less what japanese guy you trained under (unless its hatsumi, but thats a totally different discussion)

As in Hatsumi Masaaki sensei from Bujinkan? Ok, why is that then may I ask?

martial arts is about kicking and punching, hence the "martial," not this deep understanding of life or anything philosophical.

No, fighting is about kicking and punching. Martial arts has many more layers imo.

And that's probably the nub of it - when it comes to what people want / expect out of their training. Traditional arts suit some people but not others.

Some are into the history and cultural roots but some are not. Thats all fine by me

K.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Kusotare

[Kusotare]

Let's not forget there are some "brands" of Karate that were created in mainland Japan by merging the Okinawan Karate with arts indigenous to Mainland Japan - Namely Wado-ryu and Kyokushin.

So to suggest that mainland Japan was merely a "pit stop" along the way isn't entirely accurate.

K.

Very True about the Wado style and a few others. I dont believe that Kyokushin merged with anything other than shotokan and Goju however....so it kind of fits in as well...but not really....

It is well documented that as well as receiveing 4th dan in Judo Oyama sensei was Menkyo Kaiden in Daito-ryu.

I think it would be fair to say then that these influenced the creation of Kyokushin.

K.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Kusotare

[JusticeZero]

'History and cultural roots' tends to be a canned and marketed tourism product. I would rather deal with real things.

[Kusotare]

'History and cultural roots' tends to be a canned and marketed tourism product. I would rather deal with real things.

Depends where you train of course.

I deal with the real thing and both the core traditions that I practice are Japanese and although my instructors are not Japanese, their instructors are and I have trained with many in the past.

You seem very defensive JusticeZero? Why are you so anti Japanese in this respect may I ask.

No one here is Anti-American and we all agree that you can get great instructors outside of Japan, but why, when someone says there are also great Japanese instructors - you suggest we are "cultural tourists" like we have been brain washed?

The expression “narrow minded” has been brought in to play quite a bit in this thread by folk suggesting that by desiring Japanese connections makes you so, but equally, doesn't a wholesale "snubbing" of Japanese connections make you just as narrow minded?

The worlds a big place after all.

K

[Kusotare]

Sensei8,

What are your thoughts on this?

K.

[maisweh]

i can care less what japanese guy you trained under (unless its hatsumi, but thats a totally different discussion)

As in Hatsumi Masaaki sensei from Bujinkan? Ok, why is that then may I ask?

martial arts is about kicking and punching, hence the "martial," not this deep understanding of life or anything philosophical.

No, fighting is about kicking and punching. Martial arts has many more layers imo.

And that's probably the nub of it - when it comes to what people want / expect out of their training. Traditional arts suit some people but not others.

Some are into the history and cultural roots but some are not. Thats all fine by me

K.

While I do have respect for hatsumi and find him impressive, the whole not bro able to verify lineage thing thows me off, but that's a different discussion.

So, did martial arts evolve from fighting? And then if not, what is the point of it? Watch anime and take up dancing lessons then, or take a history class.

[Kusotare]

While I do have respect for hatsumi and find him impressive, the whole not bro able to verify lineage thing thows me off, but that's a different discussion.

Perhaps we can discuss it in the Koryu / Nimpo thread I recently started:

http://www.karateforums.com/classical-arts-of-feudal-japan-and-ninpo-ninjutsu-vt44937.html

So, did martial arts evolve from fighting? And then if not, what is the point of it? Watch anime and take up dancing lessons then, or take a history class.

You just hit the nail on the head... martial arts has indeed "evolved" from fighting - and that's the whole point.

K.