American Based (Are We That Unworthy?)

[Kusotare]

Just a thought...

Someone mentioned earlier that Karate was not Japanese but rather Okinawan. Then another poster mentioned that the origins of Karate were Chinese. Both facts are important to consider – in the same way that it is important to remember that American (Gridiron) Football most probably originated out of the British game of Rugby Football.

Although the game of football that is most commonly practiced (outside of the US) is what you guys call soccer, Gridiron Football has a pretty big following outside of the US also.

There are many enthusiastic teams and players, however, my betting is that anyone that practices American Football in Europe would aspire to visit / watch games in the US and ultimately train / play there.

Do you think they would be wrong or narrow minded to think this? Do you think it would have anything to do with cultural xenophobia!?

[yamesu]

I'd consider the origin of karate to be Chinese not Japanese.

Then by the same token I'd consider it to be Indian...

[Kusotare]

I'd consider the origin of karate to be Chinese not Japanese.

Then by the same token I'd consider it to be Indian...

Or Greek even!

[kensei]

two things, first when you consider history...you simply must take rhetoric and spoken word out of the way and go with what you know. Karate as a system was formulated in Okinawa when Chinese military and governement officials met with Okinawan officials and a sort of "military cultural exchange" occured. The details of which are, as mentioned before, rhetorical in nature. We have no real "this guy taught us this thing" kind of sources so we go with a bit of guess work but mostly sourced out information that has written documentation to back it up.

Beyond that Chinese Maratial arts for the better part are not linked to India directly. You can quote the Buddhidarta thing this you are blue in the face, I can then counter with he never really existed and he is a fake story told to explain many people brining buddhism to China over a great many generations ext and so forth, so lets go with what we know. Chinese Martial arts merged wiht local martial arts and created Tode, which became Karate, which them moved from Small port cities of Okinawa to big cities in Japan and then to the world.

Next, Do you need to be linked to one of these groups to be legit. NO! But that also does not mean that you should run away from them to prove a point. If you happen to join a group based out of England, The US, Germany or Indai for that matter...its not the location that matters, its the training. Is it traditional Karate or some sproty Karate group?

[Kusotare]

Beyond that Chinese Maratial arts for the better part are not linked to India directly. You can quote the Buddhidarta thing this you are blue in the face, I can then counter with he never really existed and he is a fake story told to explain many people brining buddhism to China over a great many generations ext and so forth, so lets go with what we know. Chinese Martial arts merged wiht local martial arts and created Tode, which became Karate, which them moved from Small port cities of Okinawa to big cities in Japan and then to the world.

Let's not forget there are some "brands" of Karate that were created in mainland Japan by merging the Okinawan Karate with arts indigenous to Mainland Japan - Namely Wado-ryu and Kyokushin.

So to suggest that mainland Japan was merely a "pit stop" along the way isn't entirely accurate.

K.

[JusticeZero]

How much really does it matter what flag the guy who trained before you was living under? People are people.

[Kusotare]

How much really does it matter what flag the guy who trained before you was living under? People are people.

I think everyone is in agreement with that, however there may be additional / greater opportunities that come with training with Okinawan / Japanese group (if you do Karate) or indeed an international group.

[JusticeZero]

Aside from touristy 'experiences', what measurable skill results can you expect from a foreign teacher that you cannot get closer?

[Kusotare]

Aside from touristy 'experiences', what measurable skill results can you expect from a foreign teacher that you cannot get closer?

Well, I was thinking more about technical seminars (taught by different instructors) as well as competitions.

More important though - is the deeper understanding of the tradition.

Kicking and punching aside, it’s about the transmission of core skills, principles and philosophies.

From a Japanese bujutsu perspective - there are guys outside Japan that can do this well, but they are very few and far between.

K.

[yamesu]

two things, first when you consider history...you simply must take rhetoric and spoken word out of the way and go with what you know. Karate as a system was formulated in Okinawa when Chinese military and governement officials met with Okinawan officials and a sort of "military cultural exchange" occured. The details of which are, as mentioned before, rhetorical in nature. We have no real "this guy taught us this thing" kind of sources so we go with a bit of guess work but mostly sourced out information that has written documentation to back it up.

Beyond that Chinese Maratial arts for the better part are not linked to India directly. You can quote the Buddhidarta thing this you are blue in the face, I can then counter with he never really existed and he is a fake story told to explain many people brining buddhism to China over a great many generations ext and so forth, so lets go with what we know. Chinese Martial arts merged wiht local martial arts and created Tode, which became Karate, which them moved from Small port cities of Okinawa to big cities in Japan and then to the world.

Next, Do you need to be linked to one of these groups to be legit. NO! But that also does not mean that you should run away from them to prove a point. If you happen to join a group based out of England, The US, Germany or Indai for that matter...its not the location that matters, its the training. Is it traditional Karate or some sproty Karate group?

This was kind of my point.

In the western world we use the Arabic system of numbers.

Calculus was not really "formalised" (it was around in some form, but just to iterate my point) until Greek mathematicians worked out the nuiances of it.

Does that make calculus worthless because it does not come from the root of Arabic?

I think not. It is still very useful.

Aside from touristy 'experiences', what measurable skill results can you expect from a foreign teacher that you cannot get closer?

Great point.

In fact, i would even go so far as to say I would rather train under someone local, as they have a better understanding of the life I lead and society I live in, and therefore have a better inclination as to how I should be training for everyday life.