American Based (Are We That Unworthy?)

[sensei8]

No matter the topic of the conversation, the group/governing body. No matter the media source; when the MA is concerned, moreover Karate, validity is measured by whether it's linked directly to Japan and/or Okinawa.

Is there a direct connection to some Master from Japan and/or Okinawa?

If any said Karate style isn't directly affiliated to some well noted governing body and/or Karate Master, well, that said Karate style is invalid.

Hhhhhhmmmmmm....Hhhhhhhmmmmmmm!!

I do concur with the consensus that Karate, for its majority of styles, originated from Japan or Okinawa. However, Karate is NOT owned by Japan or Okinawa!! Karate belongs to everyone!! Furthermore, the MA doesn't belong to it's country of origin!!

Shindokan, the Karate style I've trained in for nearly 49 years, is Okinawa based, founded in Okinawa, its Soke and Dai-Soke were both born and raised and trained and buried in Okinawa. However, it's now administrated by American Karateka's.

Our governing body, Shindokan Karate and Kobudo Association (SKKA) was founded and chartered by Soke and Dai-Soke in Okinawa shortly before they both moved to the USA, where they opened the Shindokan Hombu in Canoga Park, California...USA.

Having said that, Soke NEVER once relied and/or depended and/or needed and/or wanted to become affilitated with the governing bodies of Okinawa of that time; past, present, and/or future! Were they on their own? Yeah, and Soke wanted it no other way.

Affiliations are often times confused with validity; two completely separate meanings, is which, they're, if used together, oxymorons.

Having an affiliation with a governing body and/or a well noted MAist from Japan or Okinawa doesn't make the style and/or the instructor/practitioner credible.

One might be affiliated with the, for example, the SKIF and/or Kanazawa Sensei, but that doesn't mean that the style and/or the individual is credible on or off the floor.

I knew Dai-Soke but I'm no Dai-Soke. One might know Kanazawa Sensei but that one's no Kanazawa Sensei. Guru Inosanto knew Bruce Lee but he was no Bruce Lee.

Again, proof can't be found in a seal or a patch. No!! Where it matters, imho, is on the floor. Either you can or you can't!!

In closing, whatever validity or proof one is seeking or needing for their style of the MA for their piece of mind, let me reiterate this without any ambiguity whatsoever! The proof won't be found on any wall and/or in any file cabinet and/or in any governing body...NO...Proof is on the floor.

You don't need to have an affiliation with any Japan and/or Okinawa governing body because American Karateka's are worthy....IMHO!!

It's about time we stood up for our American Karate and not worry about having the blessing of some governing body from Japan or Okinawa. I don't need some Okinawa governing body blessing Shindokan because Soke and Dai-Soke ALREADY DID THAT!!

Your thoughts?

[Kusotare]

I don't think being American based makes you any less worthy, however Karate is a Japanese martial art (and there is no getting away from that), so it is only natural that some folk may seek to find a credible link back to Japan somewhere.

In the style of Karate I practice there are many occidentals that are fantastic at the art in fact I'd go as far as to say that some of them are amoungst the best in the world!

However, there is no doubt that a far greater percentage of the top flight exponents / teachers are Japanese.

If you are talking about Koryu traditions, well that's another story. I can count the number of non Japanese teachers / high level exponents on one hand (nearly) I know most of them (if not in person then by name).

They are very rarely found outside of Japan.

Point is, people seek authenticity, and although that's like nailing jelly ([us] jello) to a wall, it won't stop them trying.

K.

[straightblast]

Karate is not a Japanese art. The Japanese would not except an Okinawan art called china hand. China had a big influence on Okinawan karate.

There is a reason why Funakoshi was chosen to take karate to Japan and it wasn't because he was the best karateka.

[Kusotare]

Karate is not a Japanese art. The Japanese would not except an Okinawan art called china hand. China had a big influence on Okinawan karate.

There is a reason why Funakoshi was chosen to take karate to Japan and it wasn't because he was the best karateka.

So, wasn't Okinawa part of Japan when most of the systems of karate (that are recognised today) were formalised?

Hair splitting aside, karate did not originate in the US.

K.

[sensei8]

I suppose that Shindokan is doomed because Soke and Dai-Soke aren't alive anymore, seeing that they were from Okinawa and the American Karateka's are from USA.

Do I have to have Shindokan become recognized by someone in Okinawa? If so, that's not what our Soke wanted and this isn't what the Hombu wants.

Catch-22 I suppose.

[AdamKralic]

I'd consider the origin of karate to be Chinese not Japanese.

[ShoriKid]

I suppose that Shindokan is doomed because Soke and Dai-Soke aren't alive anymore, seeing that they were from Okinawa and the American Karateka's are from USA.

Do I have to have Shindokan become recognized by someone in Okinawa? If so, that's not what our Soke wanted and this isn't what the Hombu wants.

Catch-22 I suppose.

What? No. To heck with those that think you have to have a Japanese or Okinawan head man or organization. You have Shindokan, the techniques and principles passed on by your Soke and Dai-Soke. You have strong and loyal students and a strong Hombu and organization all your own. Why do you need someone to approve what you already know is right?

An American head man without ties to Asia is fine for the martial arts. There are other people who don't hold that belief. To them papers and hierarchy are more important content. Had a fellow once tell PittbullJudoka that there were no legit black belts in our town. He used to train with us. To him, it was about big names and paper, and I suppose proof on the floor wasn't as important.

[pittbullJudoka]

Shorikid I'm toning to have to correct you. That person didn't tell me that directly, they told another we use to train with who told me after word. He knew better than say that in my presence. But you know what he still have the connection to those big names he desired. Those "real black belts" have signed both my Shodan and Nidan certificates. So they must think my abilities are that of a true black and that's all that matters. My opinion this person just couldn't see what we are teaching because of their closed mindedness.

Personally I don't need ties to Japan or Okinawa for is to be considered real karate though is would be awesome to have those ties. But to me unless you now the elders of your style on a personal level they are kinda like a myth. But I was raised in a "family" and that is personal.

[JusticeZero]

I've already made my opinion on the matter pretty clear that it's just raging cultural xenophilia at work. there's no rational reason.

[bushido_man96]

I agree with you, Bob. I do think there are legitimate practitioners out there that won't have any connections with the Japanese or Okinawan origins of a style. There may even be some like that that are better than those that do. So much importance gets put on where someone is from as opposed to where they are going.