Any other non-association instructors out there?

[xo-karate]

I do not or have ever belonged to an association or federation, or do I ever plan on it. I like to teach my way and not having others be incharge of the way I teach or what I teach MY school.

The rank you have is not your final either, so the guy that said that above is wrong. In the martial arts you find people that are higher rank and they test you. I have done it and my instructor has done it.

Ok - you can graduate a belt from a senior rank, but it's not accepted as a valid by our national karate federation. If you want to graduate and have it accepted, you need to do it to by some style requirements and to a certain board of members. But this is the case in Finland and only if you want it to be approved.

If you want to graduate to some senior belt, and they award you a new rank, and you want to keep it, nothing can stop you. We can call our selfs what rank we want to:-)

(I've been using a gray belt lately - and calling it a professors belt - and my training partners are calling it a junior belt as I have one red stripe on it.)

I think as being non association member, I don't have a hierarchy. No one out ranks me no do I out rank anyone. I just practice and some times teach.

[mal103]

A nightmare scenario is if an independant trained up several good students and they all passed their Dan grade, if you stopped training or they moved away or wanted to expand on their training they turn up at another Dojo and say "I'm a black belt, can I join?"

The next questions maybe along the lines of which org/assoc did you get graded by or is it recognised by xyz?

There are some out there that won't recognise their grades and they may have to prove themselves or drop back several grades, or worse still have to start again.

I would be pretty hacked off with my Sensei if I got to that situation as most students don't realise how it all works until later on. It's not like passing an school exam where it's a national or international recognition.

Going back to my earlier example of a Nidan giving out brown belts to students who in most Dojo's wouldn't be at 5th kyu level based on skills.

[sensei8]

Shindokan Saitou-ryu is an independent governing body. Our Soke NEVER wanted to be affiliated with any noted governing body from Okinawa because he didn't want to follow their rules/regulations because that wouldn't allow him any flexibility.

Shindokan is his and if the SKKA that he founded isn't good enough with anybody, especially Okinawa, then so be it. Shindokan wasn't founded by our Soke for a Okinawa governing body to say yea or nay.

[xo-karate]

Shindokan Saitou-ryu is an independent governing body. Our Soke NEVER wanted to be affiliated with any noted governing body from Okinawa because he didn't want to follow their rules/regulations because that wouldn't allow him any flexibility.

Shindokan is his and if the SKKA that he founded isn't good enough with anybody, especially Okinawa, then so be it. Shindokan wasn't founded by our Soke for a Okinawa governing body to say yea or nay.

Federations and associations are politics. It's about power and status.

It's not about quality. (This is my opinion only

[JGarner890]

Ok - you can graduate a belt from a senior rank, but it's not accepted as a valid by our national karate federation. If you want to graduate and have it accepted, you need to do it to by some style requirements and to a certain board of members. But this is the case in Finland and only if you want it to be approved.

If you want to graduate to some senior belt, and they award you a new rank, and you want to keep it, nothing can stop you. We can call our selfs what rank we want to:-)

(I've been using a gray belt lately - and calling it a professors belt - and my training partners are calling it a junior belt as I have one red stripe on it.)

I think as being non association member, I don't have a hierarchy. No one out ranks me no do I out rank anyone. I just practice and some times teach.

I am not in the National Karate Federation so I could care less if they accept it or not. I have tested for every rank I've earned. I will be testing under GM David Zacker who is an 8th Dan in Tang Soo Do, he is from Michigan. Do not need a board of members (unless in a federation or association) just need a higher rank to test and grade you, and that is accepted.

Calling yourself w/e rank you want to? I believe some one that changes their rank w/o testing for it is a fake, but, like in some schools, instuctors change their rank to be noticed as the instructor, which is fine I suppose. I don't believe in it. I'm more of a traditionalist.

I out rank my students, but I do not say no one out ranks me. My instructor, his instructor, and his instructor all out rank me and are much more knowledgeable than I.

Also, I'm not saying you're wrong, or anyone is wrong. We all have our own opinions on different things. That's why I joined this forum. Also I don't mean to sound like an a-hole, hard to not when typing haha. Thanks for the input tho!

[BlueWaveKarate]

A nightmare scenario is if an independant trained up several good students and they all passed their Dan grade, if you stopped training or they moved away or wanted to expand on their training they turn up at another Dojo and say "I'm a black belt, can I join?"

The next questions maybe along the lines of which org/assoc did you get graded by or is it recognised by xyz?

There are some out there that won't recognise their grades and they may have to prove themselves or drop back several grades, or worse still have to start again.

I would personally be pretty ticked off at the organization I wished to join - and walk out instantly - if they refused to examine me on an individual basis to ascertain what rank/skill level I would be at in their association.

Assuming the student applying has demonstrable skills, why should they begin as a white belt?

Oh.... that's right. Politics. The only organizations I have ever seen in any sport or activity that refuse to take students in at their actual skill level (not rank but SKILL) were so caught up in politics and power structure that I wouldn't want to be part of them anyway.

[xo-karate]

My "problem" of not being in an association is that it also means that I don't have an instructor - I was senior in my style when I came to the area about 30 years ago.

Just a comment on problem of joining an organization and getting evaluated. I think that is great! There is nothing more stressing than trying to better than you are - related to standards of that organization. Remember it does not change your actual skills. It does not matter what belt you are wearing. Belt reflects or signals skills that the organization is expecting - you will have all you other skills left.

I often wear a white belt. Sometimes a gray or a brown. or now belt at all.

I don't wear a black belt as I don't think it was awarded to me in a correct manner. I was awarded for political reasons.

[Harkon72]

I know of a 3rd Dan Goju Ryu instructor that broke away from his association and became an independent MMA style club. One of his students said that they kept their Goju grade into the new system but their grade would not be valid any where but within their club. I think they got a rough deal.

[mal103]

A nightmare scenario is if an independant trained up several good students and they all passed their Dan grade, if you stopped training or they moved away or wanted to expand on their training they turn up at another Dojo and say "I'm a black belt, can I join?"

The next questions maybe along the lines of which org/assoc did you get graded by or is it recognised by xyz?

There are some out there that won't recognise their grades and they may have to prove themselves or drop back several grades, or worse still have to start again.

I would personally be pretty ticked off at the organization I wished to join - and walk out instantly - if they refused to examine me on an individual basis to ascertain what rank/skill level I would be at in their association.

Assuming the student applying has demonstrable skills, why should they begin as a white belt?

Oh.... that's right. Politics. The only organizations I have ever seen in any sport or activity that refuse to take students in at their actual skill level (not rank but SKILL) were so caught up in politics and power structure that I wouldn't want to be part of them anyway.

I tend to agree with you there, my point was more aimed at the beginner, they won't be aware of how it all works so at some point in their Kyu's they will realise how things lay, some may be a bit disappointed that they aren't part of a larger organision - maybe not straight away.

My whole point of view on this is not criticising the great people out there that train/teach good karate, my concern is more with the lower end of the scale who are not raising or keeping their standards, but because of a lack of standardisation or minimum requirements it allows a few to get away with bad Karate.

A small club I know of gave a demo and was openly laughed at by a few other MA's in the audience, another gave a public demo that was seen by a few of our club who said it was awful - they only take on kids but charge them a fortune up front. Another org/club we have met their main instructor who trained with us and was out of breath after 7 minutes and had to stand out most of the lesson due to being knackered.

How many other poor examples must the public be exposed to?

Sorry to rant a bit - kind of went off course too...

[ShoriKid]

I tend to agree with you there, my point was more aimed at the beginner, they won't be aware of how it all works so at some point in their Kyu's they will realise how things lay, some may be a bit disappointed that they aren't part of a larger organision - maybe not straight away.

My whole point of view on this is not criticising the great people out there that train/teach good karate, my concern is more with the lower end of the scale who are not raising or keeping their standards, but because of a lack of standardisation or minimum requirements it allows a few to get away with bad Karate.

A small club I know of gave a demo and was openly laughed at by a few other MA's in the audience, another gave a public demo that was seen by a few of our club who said it was awful - they only take on kids but charge them a fortune up front. Another org/club we have met their main instructor who trained with us and was out of breath after 7 minutes and had to stand out most of the lesson due to being knackered.

How many other poor examples must the public be exposed to?

Sorry to rant a bit - kind of went off course too...

See, I've encountered organizations on the other end of the spectrum. I've been to tourneys where certain organizations were represented by the only instructor not to at least take part in kata competition. Who's students were so out of shape they couldn't keep up sparring for the 1 minute rounds and couldn't hold it together long enough to complete their kata. There is another organization that I've seen where the students were so lax in their forms/kata that it was hard to even watch. This goes along with 40 year old instructors with 7/8 stripes on their belt and a beer gut that they must have put more money into than my house payment and 20 year old 5th dans who couldn't hold a candle to good shodan. It's all about who your instructor is and what seminars you go to and what clinics you attend. I've seen other groups though who are good. Who aren't about politics and who you know. It's not a blanket statement of good or bad. I've seen enough bad that I'm careful about who I associate with.