The death of "traditional martial arts".

[muttley]

I am so pleased there are other "like minded" people out there.

[mal103]

Not wanting to boast but I kept my Monday lesson going last week as a couple of people said they would train - even though it was a bank holiday.

In the end only 1 person turned up, but they are now better at Heian Yondan and Godan, all of their combinations and Kumite.

[bushido_man96]

Andym....you hit the nail on the head there. That is exactly what I mean. The lack of a definitive style is what IMHO is damaging to the martial arts now. Kids want to come into martial arts and train to be the next big thing in MMA, some of the dojo nowadays are saying they can do just that.

What is missing is the patience that is needed to excel through the grades and gain the experience required. I have been a 1st dan for years, mainly through a lack of training but also due to a feeling of not being ready to take the next step.

There are a lot of assumptions flying around that there are so many schools teaching a mix now. But do we know what the numbers are, really? The school I attend is a TKD school. No mixing or add-ons. We did have the Combat Hapkido curriculum we were using for a while, but this was an extra that some of us students did after our TKD classes. I see nothing wrong with it, either. If I had my way, I'd still be doing the Combat Hapkido alongside my TKD training, and if I opened my own school, Combat Hapkido would be part of what I do, because I think it is very useful. My students would advance in rank in both styles, TKD and Combat Hapkido.

Now, would this make my school one of those, "a little of this, a little of that," schools? I say nay. My school would be teaching two things, and I would make sure they worked together. By the time a student tests for 1st dan, he/she would attain a black belt rank in TKD and Combat Hapkido. So I am curious how this detracts from the "traditional" side of what I do?

MMA is the evolution of sport martial arts, not of true martial arts.

I'm curious as to why MMA is not a "true" Martial Art? Simply because it is tagged as a sport? As mentioned above, many, many MMA practitioners don't go on to compete at a high level. So wouldn't that imply that perhaps those individuals are practicing MMA for something more than mere competition purposes?

[muttley]

I would say in your example, it maintains the traditional side of things as, by the sound of it, you would be teaching the 2 arts separately, the main issue I have is when it is literally Karate, Kick Boxing and Kung Fu (for example) all taught at the same time. What direction does a student at a dojo like this take?

[cheesefrysamurai]

Let me clarify what my opinions mean.

There is nothing wrong with learning a mixed art.

There is nothing wrong with learning MMA. By MMA i am talking about sport MMA.

I mispoke. I consider sport MMAists, martial artists.

I do not think Sport MMA will displace a traditional system as most people who really want one, won't accept the other as a replacement.

I did not mean to insult anyone.

I just feel like what muttley described is the trap i was falling into.

I would go to schools that were advertising Karate or MMA and there was no coherent system, their description was either "a little of this and a little of that" or a teacher that is qualified in 1 system, say karate or taekwondo and teaches a combination of that system and what they learned from a few classes at other schools or what they saw in the UFC. (tricks they picked up as they say)

I've met Renzo Gracie, seemed very nice and almost humble, not what you would expect, I've met traditional Senseis that have succumbed to the all mighty dollar. I believe "its not the art, its the practitioner"

You take for granted, the integrity of the teacher you follow. There are many that are not so ethical. MMA being the hot thing at the moment, the money maker in martial arts, is going to attract people looking to cash in. Those people are the kind of people I want to steer clear of. Those people are the very ones i believe muttly was referring to.

[muttley]

We most definitely sing from the same sheet there.

[straightblast]

The reality is that Funakoshi trained in 2 styles of Okinawa Karate and mixed the two and combined them. He never named the system just called it Karate.

So is this a MMA? Yes

The first Shotokan was in 1936, named by his students and the JKA in 1949.

We have a mixed system or MMA that changed Funakoshi’s style to fit Japanese traditions.

Karate evolved and should continue to.

If you seek a more traditional art they are out there, many of them and governed by there associations.

[cheesefrysamurai]

I feel (and you may disagree) that there are 2 definitions of MMA.

1. Involves Cross training in 2 systems, for example: incorporating throws from your judo into your shotokan

2. Involves the new branding of martial arts used mainly for full contact sport fighting.

I am speaking more to the second. When someone tells me they are taking MMA, the first thing that DOES NOT come to my mind is a nidan in goju who is cross training in aikido.

What comes to my mind when i hear the term MMA, is

1. Blue gi with lots of patches

2. Spandex shorts and shirts with "no fear" and other brands

3. Someone who trains w to compete in the "octogan" using pieces of what works from specialties in different martial arts, like ground work of bjj+ stand up of boxing or muay thai

I can't take issue with it. Its effective. If I started earlier, had a better foundation in systems I wanted to learn, MMA would be a great hobby.

[ps1]

What comes to my mind when i hear the term MMA, is

1. Blue gi with lots of patches

.

Why does this come to mind when someone says MMA? I own and operate a Gracie Jiu-Jitsu school. But I don't coach MMA. Gracie Jiu-Jitsu is older than some "traditional" styles. It's been around since 1925, utilizes a "traditional" gi, a basic code of conduct, and has a set curriculum. What more would you want from a "traditional art", other than kata?

Regarding MMA. It's not A martial art. It's the idea of training and combining several martial arts to improve effectiveness. So training in MMA makes you a martial artist for sure. But it does not mean you know a martial art or even have a curriculum. You know how to fight. But not, necessarily, anything more.

[cheesefrysamurai]

Your words ring true to me. Your logic is sound.