The death of "traditional martial arts".

[straightblast]

I think Bushido_man is spot on.

[MasterPain]

I think it's amusing when this argument comes up, that the spiritual side of the arts always comes up as part of the draw towards traditional Asian arts. Usually by people who follow Judeo-Christian beliefs. On the other side of the spectrum are those of us who practice hybrid styles and MMA while being a (not very devout) Buddhist. Does this qualify as ironic or did I miss the mark like Alanis?

[muttley]

This is something from an article I have just read on The Shotokan Way, it kind of highlights my concerns:

"On a far less serious but still relevant subject, the rise in recent years of the purely profit making organizations targeting mainly children and using unskilled, virtually untrained instructors, yet in their marketing seriously taking the moral high ground, are an example of this. One could argue that these unskilled instructors know no better; after all they are not Martial Artists. In many cases they have paid out thousands of pounds for a franchise, which in fact makes them the biggest punter. However there is generally a high grade Martial Artist at the top of this pyramid."

And the original article:

http://www.theshotokanway.com/whatyouseeiswhatyouget.html

[ShoriKid]

Tradition is in the eye of the beholder. Not a hundred years back karate men were training bare chested in their undies (we might be generous and call it shorts). They lifted weights, traded techniques and were sent to other instructors (even other countries) to learn a different skill set than what the instructor had.

MMA is a big thing right now, the new kid with the shiny toys. It's forced some people to take a hard look at what they teach and train in. That is a very, very good thing. It has also allowed for people who didn't fit the "traditional" mold to feel a little less like out casts. Enjoy that there is verity in arts to train and a view point that can fit you. Do, Zen etc. man, I don't want words and all that on what my martial arts should mean. I've got a long rant about Do, Zen, paths and martial arts. If you find value in eastern philosophy, cool. It doesn't have to be part of getting a martial education.

[cheesefrysamurai]

After a bunch of years off the mat I decided to get back on. I searched high and low and know exactly what mutley is talking about.

Tons of schools like xxxxx karate when they are really tae kwon do or xxxx martial arts. When you call them, its always "a little of this and a little of that" or "we take what works. . . . . "

I am not sure about how everyone feels but i dont take training or dedication lightly, I want to be part of a lineage or more accurately follow a lineage. I want a Sensei, not only a skilled athletic coach. Thanks just me.

You guys all make solid points. I think MMA brings a lot of exposure, and with commercialism also comes a lot of crap, Some real gems (schools and martial artists) have come from this explosion. The "goldmine" in martial arts used to be karate, then tae kwon do, now its MMA. I don't see them as a threat to the traditional school. These systems (or their root systems) have survived centuries.

[andym]

I think the issue here is being lost in the word 'traditional' ? I believe what muttley means is the lack of a definitive style, and I would agree. All to many martial arts schools teach a combination of this and that. But, most of the times the sum of the whole, is less than the original parts. A definitive style is the spine on with things can be added, as and when a student requires them. If the school teaches 'a combination of this and that', from my experience - it lacks a coherence - a spine. As too why this is happening, I'm at a loss. As to MMA, I know several traditional instructors who became MMA coaches, thinking this is the future of the martial arts. But they are just that - coaches. Fighters come and go, the relationship involved in teaching traditional arts is missing. Fighters come and go, students may not heed their coaches advice, sometimes behaving disrespectfully to them ! Their sport coaches after all. Now they miss the definitive structure and ethos of the traditional arts. Two simple reasons for the growth of MMA, it's brutally effective in the ring: but remember 90 % of those training in MMA will not get into the ring. Plus, it's a sport, instantly understandable to the western mind, no translation needed to comprehend it's function and purpose.

[muttley]

Andym....you hit the nail on the head there. That is exactly what I mean. The lack of a definitive style is what IMHO is damaging to the martial arts now. Kids want to come into martial arts and train to be the next big thing in MMA, some of the dojo nowadays are saying they can do just that.

What is missing is the patience that is needed to excel through the grades and gain the experience required. I have been a 1st dan for years, mainly through a lack of training but also due to a feeling of not being ready to take the next step.

[cheesefrysamurai]

don't get me wrong, I agree, its an evolution but I think there will always be traditionalists.

I was shocked to see that these places didnt take pride in an art, it was more about getting you to sign up for a one month trial.

A lot of those schools will produce people will yearn for something more.

[muttley]

don't get me wrong, I agree, its an evolution but I think there will always be traditionalists.

I was shocked to see that these places didnt take pride in an art, it was more about getting you to sign up for a one month trial.

A lot of those schools will produce people will yearn for something more.

That's just it isn't it...it's all about the money, and that is a great shame. When I went to train on Thursday the Sensei only had 5 students in his class, he still ran the class, he could have cancelled and probably would have if he was only after money, but the fact that students turned up to train was enough for him.

[cheesefrysamurai]

You are 10000 pecent right. Its always about the money. Consider yourself lucky for finding a Sensei who isn't in it for the money. I definitely consider myself lucky.

There are people out there who will open any business that is in demand. There is such a demand out there for MMA that lower ranks are opening schools. Could you imaging a brown belt opening a Karate school?? MMA is the evolution of sport martial arts, not of true martial arts. They are displacing the mcdojos or I guess the mcdojos are actually evolving into MMA schools

Keep fighting the good fight!

don't get me wrong, I agree, its an evolution but I think there will always be traditionalists.

I was shocked to see that these places didnt take pride in an art, it was more about getting you to sign up for a one month trial.

A lot of those schools will produce people will yearn for something more.

That's just it isn't it...it's all about the money, and that is a great shame. When I went to train on Thursday the Sensei only had 5 students in his class, he still ran the class, he could have cancelled and probably would have if he was only after money, but the fact that students turned up to train was enough for him.