Merge

[mal103]

I'm at the stage with my Karate that I am looking over the fence at other styles.

I have started to see examples of merging of styles and applications.

I am investigation Kata applications and have seen several applications of Aikido, Judo, JJ, etc

Has anyone else experienced the same cross over?

[Harkon72]

For me Kata application is the soul of Martial arts. Each one of us interprets the Kata Bunkai in the way we are taught by our Sensei at first, then this root starts to grow and develop colors from other styles and ways of thinking we have experience of. I have studied about half a dozen styles in my life, some only for a brief time. My interpretation of Kata is a window to my Karatedo, it is how I feel my Karate is going. My Sensei surprises me all the time with new ideas, but he admits that most of his teaching comes from practicing the ideas of his students and comparing them with his personal style that has its root in his teacher's tradition. I hope my Budo grows into a strong, multi branched tree.

[lowereastside]

mal103 - IF your interested just don't look over the fence go over the fence and take a look - no style or system as all the answers. And you don't want to end up wondering - should I have done this or that - life is to short. Look I come from a very very Traditional system of Kung Fu very closed door kind of thing. That being said - a few years back I traded my Praying Mantis with his Kali. Not only did we receive each others knowledge - but a great friendship was formed.

[tallgeese]

I agree, go out and explore.

I don't really have a view on this from the kata side. Even in my pure karate days we were more of an up front application set of guys than kata. Even at that, no one system has it all. get a solid foundation then explore.

After that comes the most important stage- integrate what you learn in to how you respond. It's not enough to just pick up some movements, figure out how to make them work fluidly with what your foundation is.

That's where you really start to functionally step outside your base art.

[Kusotare]

I'm at the stage with my Karate that I am looking over the fence at other styles.

I have started to see examples of merging of styles and applications.

I am investigation Kata applications and have seen several applications of Aikido, Judo, JJ, etc

Has anyone else experienced the same cross over?

When you say you are at that "stage" - can I ask, how long have you been training for?

I'm an advocate of reviewing other systems in order to gain a good perspective of you own, however I studied Karate up to 3rd Dan before I started to train in other systems.

I still train and teach in Karate and I don't merge the two systems together. They work as they are designed to quite well on their own when done correctly.

I'm not putting you in this category, but eventually the mental weightlifting behind training an art like Shotokan has to be done by yourself. All to often I see people take what they think is best the answer - and move to another system.

Somtimes the grass is greener on the other side, however if you don't invest suiatble time into your own lawn - you are never going to reap the benefits.

K.

[tallgeese]

I had a super long response that I just managed to delete. So I'll keep this a bit shorter this time

What is your definition of "work just fine on their own" out of curiosity? There are a lot of ways to look at the arts and each is valid.

However, in my experience, once you learn something new it only become effective for SD once you interegrate it with what you do. No art will truly cover all combative circumstances. Karate will not deal with the ground like BJJ. BJJ will not address the knife. FMA will get you more reps than perhaps any other system out there, but it won't teach you hand gunning. A good shooting school won't teach you to clinch (outside of some of Henk Iverson's and they are difficult to find in the non LE realm).

Now, to govern all this you need an over arching set of principles to make certain that you're putting them together as best as possible.

But that's looking at the problem from a SD aspect. Others are valid as well. I'm just wondering how you're looking at the issue. That's all. We all run the gambit as well. Few of us are fully focused on just one aspect of martial out look. I spend most of my time thinking about SD. However, my BJJ tends to me more artsy and occasionally competitive in nature.

For me, I started experimenting at brown belt level. I got to start taking a look at boxing then and it was great. It just continued from there. Obvoiusly, to start talking about things we discusses above a good base art is critical. However, there's some differences in time I think you can look at. Two close stand up systems would not only a) be redundant in a lot o cases, but also b) be potentially confusing from a pure art stand point.

One might want to wait longer to start studying a second art. However, more different arts might cross train easier earlier. For instance, if you're in a karate art and begin studying BJJ it's much easier to keep separate due to the vast differences in the arts. One could start shooting any time while doing any art and easily "merge" the two.

In fact, if one's interested start early. It's going to let you gain a commonality of practice in your fundamental fighting postures.

Like I said, it's just a different outlook.

[Kusotare]

Actually, I don't disagree with anything you have said.

However, I think that although we may all look at things through the same prism of “martial art” – sometimes, particularly as we get older, what we see through it changes.

Naturally, things like your age and your career for example, are going to influence what is important to you. As you correctly said, SD is only one perspective, and on the grand scheme of things tends to become less of a burning "itch" to scratch as you travel through life.

The same goes for your endeavours on the Shiai Tatami!!

But, to each their own of course and the main thing that I always tell my students is to be aware of what is going on in the wider world of MA.

In the Dojo however - we focus intently on the tradition we are trying to learn and that in itself will almost certainly wield more benefits in the long term imo.

Of course, this is just my opinion.

K.

[mal103]

I am training towards Nidan at the end of this year - or when i'm deemed ready. I took advice after passing my Shodan to wait a bit before looking at anything else.

To be honest I am Karate 100 percent, I have learnt the Shotokan style (well some of it anyway...) and do like to look at other Karate styles and techniques.

In looking at other styles of MA then things like Aikido and Judo intrigue me, I don't want to ditch Karate to swap but I am interested in enhancing my Karate training.

I have linked a few Kata techniques with ground fighting and throws, someone looking on will think it belongs to another style but I think it just needs to be highlighted as Karate and practiced more often to form a more complete system.

[Kusotare]

I know a lot of Shoto folk that augment their karate training with Aikido.

Probably not a bad thing, however Aikido doesn't really contain a lot of "ne-waza" - or ground techniques - so if thats what you feel is missing - I'd find yourself a good Judo or BJJ school.

K.

[sensei8]

I agree, go out and explore.

I don't really have a view on this from the kata side. Even in my pure karate days we were more of an up front application set of guys than kata. Even at that, no one system has it all. get a solid foundation then explore.

After that comes the most important stage- integrate what you learn in to how you respond. It's not enough to just pick up some movements, figure out how to make them work fluidly with what your foundation is.

That's where you really start to functionally step outside your base art.

Possibly it's that the style has it all, but the practitioner doesn't "have it all"!! So, we seek out what "we" lack.