BRUCE LEE: Was he all that he was cracked up to be?

[omnifinite]

If you have actually read a book of five rings/spheres. there is no way around it, Musashi was a psycopath who did not believe in a fair fight.

I read it. It appeared to be (partially that is) about how to survive in a world where your life is in no one's hands but your own and combat is for keeps. Things are probably different today now that we're pampered and protected, but is there such a thing as an unfair fight when the goal is to preserve your own life? Whoever is left standing is the winner... the goal is achieved.

 

I was going to add the bit about wooden swords against katanas, but LeaF already covered it nicely.

 

I'm not hung up on Musashi, I just used him as the first example I could think of.

 

Bruce Lee was a great martial artist who did a lot of great things, but I think to call him the greatest martial artist ever is a little insulting to people centuries ago who were surrounded by war and entered life or death situations on a monthly, weekly, or even daily basis... the people who were only still alive because they hadn't lost yet. An environment like that can't help but produce some legendary fighters.

[rabid hamster]

I think he's really good. Without him martial arts wouldn't be as popular. He's probably better then most people will ever be, but I wouldn't say he is THE best. But still way above average. He also found out a lot of stuff, he deserves a lot of credit.

[sk0t]

I think that he was a great martial artists...and allot of the advancements in the martial arts are due to him...but I dont think that he is what they all say he is...he was ahead of his time...but couldnt any one who dedicated enough time to working out, become the same...

 

and what is with the 'serial killer' thing, where did that comparison come from!?

[ZeRo]

he was amazing yes, but the best? i dont think so.

[G95champ]

Do I think he was the best MA ever? Na

 

Do I think he was a good MA? Yes

 

Do I think he changed MA forever? No question yes

 

Do I think he is more responsible than anyone for MA becomming main stream? Yeap

 

Could he win a UFC or K1? I doubt it

 

Bruce is like Babe Ruth. Its not that he was so great its that he was really good and he was the first one to ever do it and do it good.

[superleeds]

Do I think he was the best MA ever? Na

 

Do I think he was a good MA? Yes

 

Do I think he changed MA forever? No question yes

 

Do I think he is more responsible than anyone for MA becomming main stream? Yeap

 

Could he win a UFC or K1?

 

Eh.What`s UFC and K1?

[G95champ]

No Holds Barred fights. Look in the Combat, Ju-Jitsu, and other sections for info on them.

[ZakariRu]

Bruce can be compared to musashi. the were both unbeatable because they trained outside the norm of traditional schools.

 

Bruce could throw punches that a room full of karateka could not block even knowing ahead of time where they would go.

 

Bruce opened up doors. Footwork was never important in traditional arts, now footwork is the key sign of a skilled fighter more so than any other attribute.

 

"I can beat any punch or kick with footwork."

 

Bruce would have beet the snot out of Musashi

 

He beat that jujitsu man with a katana in Chinese connection

 

 

 

And back to Musashi

 

A fine example of Kensei "sword saint"

 

"The house issued yet another challenge with Hanshichiro, the young son of Seijiro, as champion. Hanshichiro was a mere boy, not yet in his teens. The contest was to be held on by a pine tree adjacent to ricefields. Musashi arrived at the meeting place well before the appointed time and waited in hiding for his enemy to come. The child arrived dressed formally in war gear, with a party of well armed retainers, determenied to do away with musashi. Musashi waited concealed in the shados, and just as they were thinking he had the thought better of it and decided to leave Kyoto, he suddenly appeared in the midst of them, and he cut the boy down."

 

Pure genius!! Lets have a fully grown adult ambush a preteen child. Genius and martial valor at its finest.!

[John G]

Pure genius!! Lets have a fully grown adult ambush a * child. Genius and martial valor at its finest.!

 

Off topic: The same thing happens today, except our/their heroes use guns and bombs to kill children.

[LeaF]

"The house issued yet another challenge with Hanshichiro, the young son of Seijiro, as champion. Hanshichiro was a mere boy, not yet in his teens. The contest was to be held on by a pine tree adjacent to ricefields. Musashi arrived at the meeting place well before the appointed time and waited in hiding for his enemy to come. The child arrived dressed formally in war gear, with a party of well armed retainers, determenied to do away with musashi. Musashi waited concealed in the shados, and just as they were thinking he had the thought better of it and decided to leave Kyoto, he suddenly appeared in the midst of them, and he cut the boy down."

 

 

Not bad but you appeared to miss to very important points....

 

Ok so musashi enters kyoto wanting to make a name for him self... So he finds the Yoshioka family (The Yoshioka family served as the trainers to Shogun Ashikaga for generations). First Seijiro, the head of the family challenges Musashi to a dual. The dual takes place in an isolated area outside the city. Seijiro draws a katana, and Musashi is only armed with a bokken. Musashi's fierce attack makes Seijiro fall to the ground. Out of shame Seijiro cuts off his topknot and it is said he never taught the sword again.

 

Seijiro's brother Genzaemon soon challenges Musashi to a dual. Musashi accepts the dual but doesn't show up after two hours of waiting. A messenger is sent to find Musashi. He was found sleeping in an inn. Musashi apologises and says he will arrive soon. After another couple hour Musashi arrives. Musashi defeats Genzamon easily with his bokken. It is said that Genzamon becomes a priest giving up the way of the sword.

 

Next to dual Musashi is Denshichiro, Genzaemon's younger brother. This dual takes place in Sanjusangendo Temple. Musashi again come late, but this time when Musashi attacks with the bokken he kills Denshichiro.

 

Now comes Hanshichiro. He is very very angry because this great figther has emmbrassed his entire family with his great skill. Hanshichiro arrives with many of the senior members with intentions of killing musashi. Now you said it yourself

The child arrived dressed formally in war gear

Hanshichiro wanted to kill musashi and was prepared to die trying. Musahsi expected this though and was prepare. So he hid and ended up defeating the very large party of men.

 

As you can see musashi lived in very different times then we do today or mr. lee ever lived in. In fuedel Japan it was survival of the fitest. People were killed every day, and if they lived someone died in their place. Musashi had to be an amazing fighter, master stratigest, and brillent man to be able to survive as long as he did in the grim world he was born into.

 

Mr. lee never had to deal with such a life, and never had such an expirence.

Bruce could throw punches that a room full of karateka could not block even knowing ahead of time where they would go.

 

Bruce opened up doors. Footwork was never important in traditional arts, now footwork is the key sign of a skilled fighter more so than any other attribute.

 

"I can beat any punch or kick with footwork."

 

I did not say Bruce did not contribute to the arts, I just said he cannot be compared to the great masters of old. Footwork has Always been an important part of the martial arts, period. Whether it is the deep shotokan stances, or the graceful tai chi steps. I do not believe Bruce lee is responsible for "reinventing" footwork.

 

 

the same thing happens today, except our/their heroes use guns and bombs to kill children.

 

What are you talking about..... You can not compare terriosts to Musashi. Hanshichiro came to kill musashi, how many kids do you know who try to kill terriosts. Terriosts pray on the inicent, unprepared, weak. Musashi had arranged a duel with him, which was very normal at that time. He was by no means weak, he came with several armored men, and musashi used genius tactics to defeat all of them. So your statement holds absolutly no truth. And by the way Hanshichiro was not as young and inicent as everyone is making him out to be he was around 14, and was prepared to die, he came looking for a fight, he was NOT a victim of terriorism.