Mixing.

[Kyle-san]

My point being is that the great traditional masters included in their styles what they felt was most important.

 

Well, going from that perspective, aren't students that mix styles just taking a page out of the traditional masters' books? They're taking what they see is being important and using it for themselves. Some students that mix aren't claiming anything wrong with the traditional styles, they're just trying to find what works best for them.

 

Just a thought.

[Jade_Lotus]

Kensai, the question must then be asked..By what criteria, is a"great master" judged? Who decides who is a "great master" and who isn't? Is it not all in the eye of the beholder? As Martial_Artists made a point of, concerning O Sensei Richard Kim. Is a "great master" judged by countless recognition, praises for accomplished feates, or self-proclaimed status? Are trophies, belts and certificates the critera from which a "great master" is determined? Who is the definitive authority from which "great masters" are declared?

 

 

 

-Jade_Lotus-

[Kensai]

History. The ones that are remembered.

 

I am going to end this by only saying that I dont like mixing.

 

Nor do I think doing one art resticts me in any way.

 

But thats just me.

 

Take Care.

[Martial_Artist]

Kensai,

 

Why are you accepting an apology not directed to you? My apology was solely for Omnifinite.

 

Who are you to say I am not a great master? Are you the final judge that proclaims to all that stand upon this earth who is a great master, and who isn't? Do you know me? Do know my students? Do you know the martial art I practice? Do you know my standing in that martial art? You don't know me, Kensai, and since you are obviously not the one to declare who is a great master, you cannot say that I am not, without knowing first who I am.

 

In the art I live, you do not know my standing, my position amongst the students and teachers. Who are you--someone who knows nothing of the martial art I live--to say I am not a great master?

 

History tells who are the great masters? Ha! Tell that to the great masters back when they were young, and history didn't account unto them such a haughty honor.

 

So, by your definition alone, a great master is only one remembered. So, then, Hitler was a great master of military might. He is quite remembered today.

 

What of the martial artist past who studied their arts and mastered their technique, but were not head-full of seeking fame as to not expose themselves. Are they not masters? Do you know any such man? I don't believe you have had the martial arts immersion to know who is a master and who is not. You seem too limited and caught up in your self-serving philosophies as to not see beyond the doors of your own dojo.

 

You ask me not to take offense? And why should I not? Because your statement is supposed to possess some inkling of truth? Perhaps, my friend, to you it does; but do not be so liberal in your labelings to me.

 

You do not know me, Kensai. Do not pretend to know me, either.

 

No one is contradicting what you do or do not like. I have not entered any discourse to change your mind. I merely answer questions and reply to statements. I offer only what I know; I don't offer to change anyone's mind.

 

I suppose, though, that that's just you. It doesn't really matter to me. I have my life, and I am content with it. I am continually seeking improvement and progression in the martial arts world. I don't seek fame, or fortune, or even recognition for my deeds or contributions. I would live out my days in anonymity and be content to know I have succeeded, even if it is only to myself I know such a thing.

 

Whether history or memory has never a mark of my existence, neither of those two things have authority to declare that I have not walked the path, lived the life, and earned the honor. You, nor anybody else, cannot sit there behind your computer and say to me, "No offense, but you are no great master."

 

Tell that to my students and they will most likely beat you up. I am more forgiving.

 

I have already said it, Kensai, you may continue doing what pleases you most, I'm not here to convert you to my way of thinking.

 

Therefore, adieu.

[LeaF]

This discusses gets more heated everytime I come in here Martial artist believe it or not I respect your opinion, we have no always agreed in the past but I do repect what you have to say. With that in mind, I am curious to get back to the topic at hand and forget all this master business...

 

I do agree with you when you said

Their modern counterparts would rather catalogue, and catagorize every movement and say this is kenpo, or this is karate, and fight over their names and styles.

 

I do believe the application is more important then what it is called, and there is not point wasting time arguing what this is called and how to pronounce that. But in modern times, many many more styles are emerging and I think the movments muct be catalogued to a certain point, to keep everything organized and easier to learn, I am oepn to hear an alternative method you may have to keep everything organized? But I do believe that the application must not be forgotin during the catagorizing of the movements.

 

Now to your statement about religion. Perhaps my message was poorly conveyed. I do think we are saying more or less the same thing. The martial arts do complement religion as you said and I agree with this, but if you only focus on the physical how will your training complement your beliefs. I never said training was a supplement, it is not but you must agree that if you do not put any effort into cultivating the mental aspects the martial arts offer, then you will not see much benfit in your faith and your training will not complement your beliefs as well as they could (rather difficult for me to say I hope you understand what I mean ).

Would he tell a tale that would contradict what he believes? Would you? Belief isn't always truth/fact. People tend not to veer from what they believe to be truth.

 

This was in response to the little story I posted. I did not mean for it to be taken as truth... I was trying to show everyone what someone who was greatly respected in the goju community wrote about the subject at hand. I am sure you could find other people who could disagree with this.... I was just offering the opinion of someone who I concider very wise, thats all

 

And for the record I live in Toronto Canada. I feel confident walking down my streets in relative safety. And I did not appriecate you calling me ignorant about the people around me. Just like you said to kensai, you don't know me, you don't know what I can do, you don't know where I walk and what I see. In fact I have avoided many encounters by being aware of the people around me. I do not know where you live but unless you live somewhere like Isreal, you must agree that the society we live in today is much more stable then that of 16th century war ridden Japan.

 

Cheers

[Martial_Artist]

LeaF,

 

I understand where you come from with regard to your story. Without disrespect to O Sensei-san, I was merely pointing out the statement you made clear in your post. I appreciate havin input from many sources. The more sources, the better chance we have of filtering out what works and what doesn't.

 

About where you live, I apologize if my statements about ignorance were offensive. It was not a direct personal attack calling you ignorant. It was more a comment about a state of mind, ie being ignorant of conditions, or not being aware. I chose ignorant because it is a stronger adverb than the phrase not being aware. I wasn't saying that you are ignorant. I was referring to perhaps you being unaware of certain bad elements surrounding you.

 

Obviously, I was wrong. It is good to hear of those who can avoid potentially harmful situations by simply being aware of their surroundings. Just earlier this evening on a walk with my wife and son, we avoided a potentially dangerous situationa by veering away from a group of 'thugs' engaging in not so becoming activities.

 

My point really didn't refer to relative safety of our streets. Compared to places like the Philippines(I lived there for 4 years), Israel, or other turbulent nations, our lands are significantly safer. I was referring to the possiblity of danger. That's why I quoted the story about a friend. Even three homes away from his he was mugged. Anyplace, no matter how safe it is relatively, can become dangerous under the right circumstances. That is why, personally, self-defense is paramount. I have a family to protect, and I need the ability to do such if, ever, the circumstance presents itself. Believe me, I will do anything to prevent that, including veering a different path away from potential danger.

 

Relatively speaking, today's society is not war ridden, but there are parts of the US that violence is just as relevant as it was in Feudal Japan. Think inner-city. Luckily I don't live near such places, but the influences of those places seem to spread themselves further out to where I live. I was once a Boy Scout, "always ready."

 

Kampai (japanese for cheers)

[Kensai]

Your students will beat me up for disagreeing with you, then unfortunately that is a measure of your style. You have my sympathy.

 

But, I would agree that readiness is very important. Always focusing on your surroundings, being aware of every movement.

 

Also, after reading your posts, I cant also see the benefits of Mixing. I might consider taking Iaido.

 

I would also have to say that I have argued this in an ignorant manor. Really just to have an arguement. For that I apologies. It is true that I am in no position to judge, nor does what you do effect me in anyway. It goes against the prinicples of my style to simply fight for fightings sake, for that again I apologies.

 

Train Well in what your heart dictates.

 

Take Care.

[Bon]

But systems are complete

 

Assuming this holds true.

There are some uncomplete ones like Kendo, Iaido, but then they are swords arts. BJJ is TOO ground orintated, although very cool, judo does not cover everything, but then it was not supposed to.

 

WTF !? You said systems are complete. Or, do you mean 'Aikido' is the only complete system you'll ever need to learn ? It seems to me you don't like the popularity of the groundfighting arts and that you think your wristlock would be able to take a resisting attacker to the ground.

 

 

But most of the traditional arts, Wing Chun, Shaolin, Tai Chi, Ba Gua, Hsing I, Jujutsu, Aikido, Aikijutsu, Shotokan, Wado Ryu, Tang Soo Do and TKD. These are complete systems. Created for defence. So therefore catering for all situations.

 

Just because something is created for self defense doesn't mean it caters for ALL situations. Many of these styles only just touch on some aspects, or don't even have them at all, while they are the focus of other styles. Let's put it this way. Do you think if I studied Aikido for 6 months, I would be able to defend myself ? Most certainly not and I have studied akido, not for that longer period though. By the same token, what makes you think the equivalent time spent on grappling/striking in one art is enough for self defense should you come into a situation which requires it ?

 

 

An art is as good or bad, complete or imcomplete as YOU make it.

 

Yes, which is why you create your own art through cross training, making it complete.

I can handle myself in both standing and on ground

 

Againt someone who has spent 2 years training purely groundwork ? Don't fool yourself, man. Me and you both know if you were to find yourself against a BJJ practioner on the ground, you'd be dead meat and that your ki wouldn't blast them off you.

[Bon]

Only two arts ?

 

Currently, I train in BJJ. I've trained in freestyle kickboxing as well.

 

I also plan to train in :

 

Muay Thai

 

Boxing

 

Judo

 

Anything that has some nice techniques

[jeffrogers]

I would like to compete in MMA so I would do Muay thai and BJJ. -Jeff