Mixing.

[GoldDragon]

Ok all- check this out and tell me what you think.-

 

As some of you know ( for a while) I am a Martial Artist.

 

To those who dont know- well know you do....LOL

 

Arts I have Studied:

 

Nothern/Southern Shaolin Kung Fu

 

Korean TKD

 

ShotokanRyu Karate

 

Muay Thai ( Tay Son Nhan ) Kickboxing

 

...and now studing Capoeira ( from my cousin).

 

When I go to spar in my Dojo I use all my Arts in one style.

 

I start off in a basic fighting stance, then jump in with a TKD kick, and land doing a Praying Mantis stance while doing some Capoeira "dancing"

 

Confussing huh?--(LOL) Well I get the same responses when I spar.

 

LOL-

 

Use what you learned and dont be ashamed to go the distance:)

[Red J]

Which brings about the saying, "You are the sum of your experiences." IMO a broad range is good, however, quality is better than quantity.

 

BTW, I have trained in wrestling, karate, and Shoalin Kempo, and I feel that all of my training comes into play when I spar or grapple.

[GoldDragon]

Well said...

 

" IMO a broad range is good, however, quality is better than quantity."

[Radok]

gold dragon's postin again! I say either an Okinawan Karate with traditional jui jitsu or muay tai and bjj. I like the first combo better. I wonder if "muay tai is not supior!'' is a thread.

[Xtreme Fury]

well im already a beginner so i can't really start all over again.

 

so probably enshin karate for standing and BJJ for grappling. <--this isn't the best combo or anythin, just one i kinda like.

 

the only downside to this combination is you dont get much weapons training!

[ZeRo]

yeh most of them have evloved from somewhere

[Martial_Artist]

Omnifinite,

 

Are you a child, or serious? Wriggling your toes? Touching your nose with your tongue? You're not trying to be funny are you?

 

You wouldn't be limiting yourself because you are the one making the decision and not simply being taught a robotic pattern, or form. When you are novice to the martial arts, you are taught patterns that have been decided upon for decades. You aren't taught the essence of martial arts in the neophyte years. You are taught patterns, many of which have lost their combative usefulness and are not efficient any longer.

 

You're right, students can feel that what they're training in is quite complete. (Take Kensai for example, he's more than satisfied his art is complete) But that feeling the student possesses doesn't make it fact. You can believe the moon is made of cheese all you want, but it will never change the composition of the moon.

 

I don't think many students of modern martial arts have the same goal as I, but many do, and many try. I only try to help along the way, using my experience and training as a guidepost.

 

I don't speak from conjecture, or hypothesis. What I say has been tried and true. Styles are limiting, more than just the set number of moves that are programmed into the fighter, but the philosophy that there is nothing beyond their art and that it is complete.

 

If you were to attend an elementary algebra course and your teacher were to tell you that this is all the math in the world. That there is nothing further out there. That this is complete. That he is the only instructor who knows it, and it full. You wouldn't believe him, would you? Because you know better. Beliefs are wholly based on what we consider to be truth, regardless of if there is any fact in that belief.

 

Kensai,

 

You are funny. For you this is about changing minds. About who's wrong or right. I could never win a battle with someone over their beliefs of right and wrong. For me, this has been about greater martial arts truth, about learning what we can as a martial artists to expand our horizons and develop ourselves as people. I said in the beginning, I'm not a preacher, nor will I try to convert you; to change you to my way of thinking. I will only offer information I believe helps other martial artists.

 

I never said martial arts were SOLELY about fighting. I said that fighting is what makes the philosopher, art, and philosophy martial. Take out the fighting and you might just as well become a yoga guru. Fighting is so much the heart of martial arts, that if it wasn't after the masters of ancient created it they would have abandoned training in times of peace, and stuck to meditation.

 

I don't think you'll believe me though, and that is sad. Because before you is an opportunity to grow as a martial artist and you are passing it up as if it were common rubbish on the street.

 

I suppose that is why I am so adamant about making sure I'm clear.

 

But, then again, it doesn't really matter, does it? In no way am I going to change your mind on the subject.

 

LeaF,

 

Read my post to Kensai. Have you never walked a street at night? My friend was mugged not three houses away from his. Where is this wonderous place you speak of where you can walk around and not expect someone to come at you? Or do you simply walk around ignorant that there are people out there who would do you harm if given the chance? I do not know where you live, perhaps no one has ever tried to beat you up. Every fight I have been in I did not seek. I did not go out looking for trouble. I was walking to a dance; going to see my friends; walking to pick up my younger siblings; just standing on a corner.

 

If you don't think that the core of martial arts, that the reason for their creation, is self-defense, then I believe that you have the common misconception.

 

The martial arts were not created to replace religion. Even the ancient masters of old built the martial arts around the current religions of their era. The martial arts are a supplement.

 

I have religion. I do not need the martial arts to develop my mind or soul. I have religion to do that for me. Martial arts supplements that development by helping me to cultivate my body, and develop physical prowess so as not to be a sloth.

 

What has happened, is that modern students do not understand this, because it has not been conveyed in the teaching. When the art is taught in the east, the philosophies of shinto and buddha are commonplace, in fact almost every student already leads that sort of life. The martial arts is not taught to replace that belief, but to complement it.

 

In the West, the fact that the martial arts is not a religion was lost to the western students. They saw the East as a whole and took the art as such. So, it translated into the martial arts being taught along with the eastern philosophy. This, doesn't replace religion. it was never intended to. I don't the martial arts to help me find spiritual essence or power. My religion does that fine enough for me. So, whether you realize it or not, you don't the East to teach you how to become a better person.

 

The religion written into martial arts is present because the ancient creators of the traditional styles were raised that way since childhood. They didn't know anything else. To wonder why it is found in the traditional styles is simple: the creators were followers of that religion. The creators of Western martial arts have philosophy as well, but religion is left to the practioner.

 

The ultimate goal of karate-do is to perfect the fighter. To give him tools to both defend and tools to carry his character as one with honor.

 

I don't pity the student who is spending years learning how to defend himself. You can never get perfect, and the threat never leaves. It doesn't vanish with old age. So the student who learns to fight his whole life is doing so because he feels the need to be better. You can never attain perfection, so that requires that you endlessly study to improve.

 

About that story, only you hold O Sensei Richard Kim in the regard as one of the greatest martial artists of this century. So declaring that in the opening is quite braggardish.

 

Also, anyone can write a story to tell his point. Artistotle, Cicero, and countless other rhetors of old have taught us that rhetoric is the tool of the rhetorician. Because O Sensei san, wrote this fable, doesn't make it true. Would he tell a tale that would contradict what he believes? Would you? Belief isn't always truth/fact. People tend not to veer from what they believe to be truth.

 

Perhaps the story could be written: the fox and the cat spoke and said the same, let us simply change the setting. There are no trees. As the cat eloquently stated, "All is lost." The dogs come and the cat has no defense. As the fox was depicted as a dote, I will not show him as such. The wily and fast fox quickly found a solution and evaded the dogs as his companion the cat, not knowing what to do outside of his single technique, was devoured.

 

What does the fable prove? Only what the writer wishes it to prove.

 

You three have only simply shown, and displayed, where each of you stand in the martial arts. Clearly and without reservation. I appreciate that. Your words have spoken a thousand times over in describing yourselves. I respect that.

 

I'm not here to convince anyone they are wrong and I am right. I keep repeating it, but some people just don't get it. They just seem to take it as if I'm trying to make them think the same as I. I just share information I have found helpful to myself. Do with it what you will, it doesn't matter to me.

 

However, I won't stop sharing what I feel helps, and pointing out what I feel is hindering.

[omnifinite]

Omnifinite, Are you a child, or serious? Wriggling your toes? Touching your nose with your tongue? You're not trying to be funny are you?

I was commenting on how no matter how you look at it people are selective about which movements they use and disagree on which are more effective... thus people pick different arsenals. I wasn't jumping on the single-style bandwagon... for the most part I've agreed with you. I just wondered how you felt about past masters who came to conclusions through tried and true experience, as you have, and wanted to share that experience with others, as you're trying to. Maybe their crime is giving what they did a name? *shrug* Oh well, I had a feeling asking the question would be a mistake.

[Martial_Artist]

Omnifinite,

 

I see where your comment is coming from, and I must apologize for being somewhat rash. It's just that the sillyness of wriggling toes, &c. didn't come across as serious, so I didn't treat it as such.

 

The ancient masters I don't have a problem with, for the most part(some semi-contempory teachers I do). It's what their modern students have done to their arts. The ancient masters had more to say about learning what worked and what didn't than what their modern counterparts have to say on the subject.

 

Their modern counterparts would rather catalogue, and catagorize every movement and say this is kenpo, or this is karate, and fight over their names and styles.

 

Just read Sun Tus, Lao Te Ching, or Musashi Miyamoto--among other great ancient masters. Those guys didn't say x form, to y pattern for z result. They gave working guidelines, concepts and philosophies towards fighting mechanics, to govern the movements of human form. For Sun Tsu, that was governing an army, for Lao te Ching, the spirit, and for Musashi, the body. These ancients didn't sit around and conjure up X Style to be taught X way. They found that, through experience, some things, some concepts worked better in fights than did others and they shared those philosophies.

 

The ancients found what worked and taught it to others. There was no crime in giving their experiences names, the only bad side to it was that their modern counterparts have taken those names to heart.

 

I am grieved to say that your feeling was right. I don't mean to offend, sometimes I just get energetic. The martial arts means a lot to me. It is more than just a hobby or exercise program; it has been my life.

 

Humbly, I apologize. I'm not out to pick fights or make enemies.

 

Sincerely,

 

Martial_Artist.

[Kensai]

I accept your apology.

 

My point being is that the great traditional masters included in their styles what they felt was most important. No offence, but you are no great master, neither am I, so who are you to tamper with greatness?

 

That is just what I think anyway.

 

Take Care.