Mixing.

[Martial_Artist]

Kensai,

 

You see, I do not view the martial arts dependent upon their arts. I do not do a martial art. I do the martial arts. My life is given to the study of the martial arts, not to any one art.

 

Let me elaborate.

 

When I study to fight I do not look at my opponent and say to myself, "What technique have I been taught to use here?" or "What pattern/form can I use?"

 

For me, styles are useless and only hinder the true progression of the martial artist. Why should there be a necessity to differentiate styles? We all have two arms, two legs, a body. We are all men (and women). When you move, it is not vastly different from how I move. Any move your body does, mine is capable of. Your punch, your kick can only move as the physics of the human body allow. Same as mine.

 

There is no style or form, how could there be? The moment you define what the body can or cannot do(defined by the list of movements within the style) you have limited yourself as a martial artist. How can you find purity in limitation? How can you find completeness is boundary? What wholeness exists in the confined?

 

I am a martial artist of the Pure Art. I have two arms, two legs, not unlike many others of the human species. When I fight, I fight in the purity of human form. I am not limited to what form, pattern, or style I have been taught. I am only limited by what the human body can and cannot do.

 

Every movement you do, any attack you deliver or defense you offer I know. Your arm can only move in so many directions, the force behind it can only generate in so many directions, your body can only manuever is so many ways, what makes you think that your human body, which is the same as mine, can do anything that I cannot expect or see through? (because I have trained to recognize human form, human power, and human movement)

 

It matters not if I know every move within the patterns defined by the 'style' of your martial art. You are a man, any and everything you do is based on the physics and creation of your body. An elbow can only bend certain ways, a wrist, a leg, a torso, where do you get your belief that any of those defined movements cannot be predicted, or seen through by someone who understands completely how the human form works under combat? What makes you believe that by limiting yourself to one style, dedicating your life to it, is going to make you complete in some way to prepare yourself for movements the creator of your style didn't see through?

 

How do I know that there are movements that each style has a weakness to? The very existence of multiple styles tells me this. One man creates a martial art to give himself direction to defend himself. Another sees this, but finds fault, perhaps an attack the first did not think about, and builds a style on that. The very existence of different kinds of martial arts styls is proof that each style is incomplete and that someone somewhere found need to improve and change and create anew.

 

You see, I don't find it my perrogative to do justice to any one style. I owe no style anything. Instead, I do justice to the martial arts. The study and practice of arts pertaining to war, combat, and fighting. I am not just a fighter, but a fighter with philosophy toward that fighting, I am a martial artist.

 

If you're happy where you are, that's great. I'm happy for you. I'm just trying to help other martial artists realize the full potential of the martial arts.

 

I don't believe in any one system, or style, so for me there is only one philosophy. And that is the philosophy of the martial arts.

 

I've said it before, the martial arts are about combat. That is what differentiates us from ballet dancers, or yoga guru's. We study the punch, the kick, the attack, and the defense for combat. It is the philosophy that comes to governs that ability that makes us artists and not soldiers. But, the martial arts, are combat centered. Why else do you think your instructor is teaching you to fight? Because you are learning a MARTIAL art, and not a painting, or dancing art.

 

As martial artists we decide what to do with that ability, and that is the philosophy that makes us martial artists.

 

I really don't have anything else to say.

 

If you want to know more (I don't like repeating myself) go read my thread under combative arts titled, "The Martial Arts". 50 some odd posts may help clarify my philosophy.

[Radok]

LOL is what i say, when somebody tells me that karate and TKD works for a real fight.

 

tell me something, why have never a Karate or TKD practicioner, have won in a NHB event?

 

they don't have a chance in a real fight

Maybe because......... KARATE ISN'T DESIGHNED FOR A GAME! I'ts desighned for a real fight. I have taken karate for just 2 years, even a little less than that, and I know for sure I can take care of myself.

[Kensai]

I agree radok.

 

Martial Artist.

 

 

 

"the martial arts are about combat"

 

For me and for all true martial artists, the martial arts are a way of life, not only forms of combat. They are an expression of the soul, and what one believes in. I prefer to think of martial arts as a continuous evolution of life

 

"How can you find purity in limitation?"

 

One must experience form, before one can appreciate formlessness. If you feel your style is limited, then perhaps you should choose another.

 

Again thanks for your reply.

 

Take Care

[Martial_Artist]

Kensai,

 

If what you believe about the martial arts is true, then why practice the punch, the kick, the attack? Why use these things to express your soul and what you believe in? The punch, the kick, what do they do to help you express yourself?

 

You contradict yourself at one major point. If martial arts are not about combat then why not take up philosophy at the university, follow the Dalai Llama, or learn yoga? Why learn to fight to express your soul and what you believe in?

 

"One must experience form, before one can appreciate formlessness."

 

So you admit that eventually you will find your art too constricting and have to progress to formlessness? If you believe what you have written, then what have you been debating?

 

Your last comments are contradictory to everything you have written previous. The martial arts are a continuing evolution of life...so to confine them would hinder that evolution, right? You must progress from form to formlessness, right? (One must experience form, before one can appreciate formlessness) So eventually the destination to be reached is a realization that no form allows the acquisition of all form.

 

So, what is it you are trying to say?

 

Form is better than formlessness? That the continuing evolution of life, you call martial arts, isn't really that continuing because you limit yourself to one art? That you express your soul through combative movements yet claim not to be a combatant?

 

I think you would be happier as a yoga guru, or disciple of the dalai llama, rather than as a martial artis: a philosopher that studies combat to find inner expression.

 

You didn't answer my question, "How can you find purity in limitation?"

 

Allow me to answer for you: you can't. Confining it, restricting it, declaring it whole, while removing its greater parts; that is the furthest from pure that the martial arts can become.

 

The martial arts are an expression of the soul, of what one believes in. This I agree with you on. We express this 'self' through the punch, the kick, the essence of the fight. That is what makes us MARTIAL artists, and not yoga guru's, ballet dancers, or disciples to the Dalai Llama.

 

Think about it. Clarify your thoughts before response. Listen to logic, listen to your heart. There is more to the martial arts than you have been exposed to.

 

You are perhaps yet young, and hopefully not fully rooted in bad ground. The advantage of youth is the prospect of change towards progression. When the oak has set its path, it cannot be easily changed. The sapling can be cultivated to grow to an oak unbreakable by any wind.

 

Until you can present yourself without contradiction to your own statements I cannot process your remarks. It would seem that even you yourself do not fully understand where you stand.

 

I respect your enthusiasm in defending your beliefs. I only hope that you will defend such without the narrowmindness appearent in most.

 

My "style" (if it could even be called a style) is furthest from limited. I possess every style, because I do not align with any one style.

 

Good luck in your personal quest for martial knowledge.

[omnifinite]

There is no style or form, how could there be? The moment you define what the body can or cannot do(defined by the list of movements within the style) you have limited yourself as a martial artist. How can you find purity in limitation? How can you find completeness is boundary? What wholeness exists in the confined?

If some styles are inherently more effective than others, wouldn't some techniques be inherently more effective than others? You wouldn't train for combat using every single movement the body is capable of (including wiggling your toes and trying to touch your nose with your tongue)... you would train using only the movements that have made it through the mental filter that decides what will and won't accomplish a goal. Wouldn't weeding out the bad techniques technically be "limiting" yourself?

 

I'm guessing that the original creators of all of the martial arts out there felt that their arts were complete, otherwise they would have added what was missing. It's possible the students who feel their styles are complete are on the same wavelength as the creators and are trusting them to bring them only the most useful techniques and not waste their time with anything more. If they find eventually that another art has something they want, of course they should go after it. Focusing on one art without reason would be tunnel vision. But a person purposefully and knowledgeably focusing on one art, because they feel that in the end it will reveal every weapon they desire, and with time and dedication it can truly set them free... is their goal really different from yours?

[Kensai]

Martial artist, I have made my point, also, in no way are you going to change my mind on the subject. To think that MA's are solely about fighting is just ignorant.

 

Take Care

[ZeRo]

mauy thai and BJJ coz they go well together.

[LeaF]

Martial artist, I have made my point, also, in no way are you going to change my mind on the subject. To think that MA's are solely about fighting is just ignorant.

 

I agree with you completely Kensai. It is a common misconception that the martial arts are just about fighting. Perhaps in feudel Japan "Martial Artist's" statement would hold more truth. But in todays Society you can walk down you street(I suppose this depends on what street you live on ) and not have to worry about someone chopping you head off your statment loses truth martial artist. The martial arts have developed into a system meant to develop the mind, body and soul and unite them into one. Without one you will NEVER be as good as you can be and there will ALWAYS be a void in your life, whether you realize it or not.

 

The ultimate goal of Karate-do is perfection of the character of it's participants. It is NOT to go out and win all the tounaments, or to kick the **** out of everyone you see. Perhaps the beginer will join karate to learn how to defend oneself, but I pity the student who has trainned for several years and is still there just to learn how to fight....

[LeaF]

Martial artist I have a story for you which was written by one of this centuries greatest martial artists, O'Sensei Richard Kim....

 

A cat and a fox were exchanging views upon the difficulties of living in peace and safety from those who were ever ready to take their lives

 

"I do not care a jot for any of them" said the fox at last. "Things may be very bad, as you say, but I have a thousand tricks to show my enimies before they can do me any harm."

 

"You are fortunate," replied the cat, "For my part, I have only one trick which I learned well, and if that fails all is lost."

 

"I am sorry for you with all my heart," said the fox. "If it was not so hard to tell a friend from a foe in these difficult times, I would show you one or two of my tricks."

 

Hardly had he finished speaking, when a pack of hounds burst suddenly upon them. The cat, resorting to her single trick, ran up a tree into the security of the topmost branches. The fox, unable to make up his mind which of the thousand tricks he would adopt, was torn to pieces before he could put even one of them into operation.

[Kensai]

Thank you Leaf.

 

You have my humblest gratitude.

 

 

Take Care.