If I Could "Cheat", I'd...

[tallgeese]

Sweep, stand, deploy weapon.

For the record, I like this a lot.

It does go back to my previous post as well.

I love the sequence, it starts with sweep. A fundamental grappling skill. The cheating isn't on the end of beating the grappling, it's in the final control phase AFTER grappling skill has countered poor position.

[cheesefrysamurai]

For those who are practitioners of a grappling art, I'd like to pose a direct question...

If you could eliminate all of the rules that govern the UFC, for example, what technique(s) would you use if you found yourself in??...

1>Guard go for eyes - tear groin

2>Half Guard - grab an ear if possible, hook mouth

3>Mount groin, and when they re adjust gouge eyes

4>Rear Mount try to stand, spin, hook neck and shikoro gake

Rules exist to protect the practitioners, and not to destroy the effectiveness of said grappling art. Having said that, if, for once, we could be honest with ourselves, many different/"forbidden" techniques would and could bring a different light onto the venues and into the "street".

[kensei]

If you could eliminate all of the rules that govern the UFC, for example, what technique(s) would you use if you found yourself in??...

1>Guard Eye poke....poke that sucker in so hard they cry!

2>Half Guard Ear Bite...lets face it, you pull a mike tyson on them and they take notice.

3>Mount Go for the "boys" lets face it....its a bad spot, the eyes are to far away, the closest soft spot is the groin! Smash that a few times and then UPA away!

4>Rear Mount SPIKE! Flip yourself when ready and drive that suckers head into the matt. I have seen it done on a BJJ Purple belt in a bar once....not good!

[ps1]

If you could eliminate all of the rules that govern the UFC, for example, what technique(s) would you use if you found yourself in??...

1>Guard Eye poke....poke that sucker in so hard they cry!

2>Half Guard Ear Bite...lets face it, you pull a mike tyson on them and they take notice.

3>Mount Go for the "boys" lets face it....its a bad spot, the eyes are to far away, the closest soft spot is the groin! Smash that a few times and then UPA away!

4>Rear Mount SPIKE! Flip yourself when ready and drive that suckers head into the matt. I have seen it done on a BJJ Purple belt in a bar once....not good!

I think I'm gonna have to make a video about this topic. Most people have no idea how to handle a skilled grappler. Everyone is trying to apply free movement concepts to a situation where you don't have free movement.

1. Eye Poke. This isn't horrible. But a good grappler is going to treat the movement the same whether it's an eye poke attempt or an attempt to reach the back of the head. They are going to take control of your arm and pass to a superior position. This is very easy to do.

2. I don't know how you think you're getting to the ear from half guard. Someone with good control has your face pinned to the side. You aren't even able to turn your head, let alone lift it to bite.

3. Groin strikes and grabs are (mostly) ineffective anyway. Adrenaline and anger usually take over when the groin is struck/grabbed. Doing it from this position is among the worst ideas you can come up with. There are several videos with people trying it. From cross chokes, to mounted triangle to kimura and americana attacks and even just getting bludgened unmercifully with elbows...this is an all around bad idea. You've just taken someone who already wanted to hurt you, put them in a very dominant position, then gave them more reason to want to hurt you harder.

4. I think this is situationally dependant. For sure, if someone just jumps on your back like they can do in the ring or on a mat...a spike is very effective. I cringe when guys do that. It's just bad jiu-jitsu. But if I'm on your back and you just roll forward (we were both on the ground already), that's not very effective.

Sweep, stand, deploy weapon.

I love the sequence, it starts with sweep. A fundamental grappling skill. The cheating isn't on the end of beating the grappling, it's in the final control phase AFTER grappling skill has countered poor position.

I also agree that this is the best way to beat a grappler. You're not going to surprise him with groin grabs, biting, hairpulling ect. I have honestly had several people attempt each of these tactics...none of those people enjoyed my response to their dirty tactics. Those are not going to win for you. You beat him by taking it out of the grappling situations and back into your own sphere of control.

Whether it's a gun, a soccer kick to the head, or hitting him with your truck, you need to have free movement.

[straightblast]

I would not fight a wrestler in an MMA event with no rules if I had no wrestling experiance.

guard, half guard, head butts, elbows back of head and neck, punch throat. Get up.

I use my eye strikes, groin/shin/knee kicks standing and im wearing my steel toe shoes.

If mounted, grab and hug do not let him get space to punch, bite off his nipple then trap and roll.

Migh get lucky with some elbows and head butts off your back if you can clinch his neck and pull him close.

pull out my Crocodile Dundee knife and hopefully he would rather go grab a beer instead

[bushido_man96]

Sweep, stand, deploy weapon.

For the record, I like this a lot.

It does go back to my previous post as well.

I love the sequence, it starts with sweep. A fundamental grappling skill. The cheating isn't on the end of beating the grappling, it's in the final control phase AFTER grappling skill has countered poor position.

I like this as well. From what I've seen in the LEO grappling training, this is what the goal is. Not spending any more time on the ground than needed. I've also seen some positions worked that allow the LEO to draw and fire at the bad guy from the ground, but a good position is the key.

[Tempest]

First of all, right now, before I say anything else, let me state that this is a great discussion with some excellent points being raised.

Secondly, to address something tallgeese said earlier regarding it being more important to maintain a dominant position than it is to strike, I believe that you and I are making different assumptions about our potential encounter where the rules of sport do not apply.

My assumption is an unprovoked street assault from someone who may, or may not, know any MA at all but likely will be willing to hurt you, as such it becomes of paramount importance to render them unable or unwilling to continue ASAP even if doing so may weaken your grappling position.

That being said, I want it out there that in general I agree with something tallgeese has said before and is here defending, and that is that no amount of dirty tricks are a substitute for good fundamental fighting skills.

You MUST practice whatever you intend to do, and experience has shown that basic grappling and MMA type movements are the most effective that you can safely practice at full speed and full contact.

I just happen to have an unfortunate amount of experience with dirty tricks in fighting before I learned many formal martial arts so I know that they can be applied and DO work, and since the OP asked what we would do if we could cheat or in a non-sporting situation I posted some things that it would occur to me to do.

[tallgeese]

My assumption is an unprovoked street assault from someone who may, or may not, know any MA at all but likely will be willing to hurt you, as such it becomes of paramount importance to render them unable or unwilling to continue ASAP even if doing so may weaken your grappling position.

I agree with this assumption. However, I'm not willing to give up position to attempt to remove them from the picture. As long as I maintain position, this will either a) present the chance due to position, or b) keep him from hurting me due to my position.

Either is fine with me AND does not give the bad guy the opportunity in either case to get his goals accomplished. Position is always better than an attack that might compromise the position, regardless of the setting.

[sensei8]

I used the word "cheat" in the title of this topic to attract KF members, to draw them in, and not to subscribe to the act of cheating, as in breaking the rules and the like.

Great responses thus far!!

[ShoriKid]

I used the word "cheat" in the title of this topic to attract KF members, to draw them in, and not to subscribe to the act of cheating, as in breaking the rules and the like.

Great responses thus far!!

It's only cheating if I'm not winning sensei.