Pressure point karate?

[xo-karate]

Do we have people who have knowledge about training pressure point karate? Kyusho?

[Wastelander]

We incorporate kyusho into our training, but I definitely wouldn't call it "pressure point karate." Pressure points are simply another tool that we use in conjunction with our strikes, joint locks, and takedowns. Did you have something in particular that you wanted to know about the use of pressure points?

[Harkon72]

We are lucky in our club to have a pressure point specialist as a Sensei.

His experience and knowledge is vast. I have learnt much from him; he keeps this training fort the adults as a matter of ethics and safety.

[sensei8]

Kyusho jitsu is a big part of Shindokan; hand in hand with Tuite. Having said that, I must say this as well...not every point can be manipulated for one reason or another. I believe in its effectiveness, however, I know that Kyusho jitsu is an art/science and in that, not everything goes as planned.

I'll apply it without regards of doubt. I firmly beleive that for the most of it, it's not the science that's faulted at times, it's the practitioner. It's the practitioner that lacks the neccessary knowledge and understanding of Kyusho jitsu.

[xo-karate]

Why am I asking. It looked impressive on a youtube dvd series. I have not been training karate for some years. (Hitting and kicking a heavy bag, but not actually wearing a gi and training with a partner.)

Kind of looking for some inspiration to take karate back to my training. Kyusho might be difficult, but I might get some training partners just asking around.

I did send an email to a finnish 7dan in Kyusho but he never answered. I'll call him and ask his advice.

[sensei8]

Please be very careful about believing what you see on the web because compliant actions make 'it' appear valid when in actuality, it's not. Approach it with kid gloves, so to speak.

Unless and until I feel its effectiveness for myself, I doubt its validity for myself.

[Harkon72]

I concur, some pressure point work works well in theory but not always in practice. I get to try some on my Sensei and other senior grades sometimes, the results can be at best mixed.

[bassaiguy]

Even hard-hitting karate can (and should) include pressure point training. Funakoshi and Nakayama both included pressure point charts in their karate texts even though Shotokan is not known for its emphasis on kyusho jutsu or tuite. There is even a Shotokan organization which supposedly emphasizes this more (Kissaki-kai Karate), but I've never trained with them.

The important thing to remember in my opinion is that when you're really into a fight, and fatigue and adrenaline kick in, your fine motor skills are going out the window. So, I look at pressure point training as the ideal, but not the end all, be all of dento karate.

An example of this is in the Shotokan kata Hangetsu (Seisan, for others). There is the double ippon-ken to the chest. In an ideal world the fore-knuckle strikes are to a pressure point just below the nipple (men, you can feel a small impression below your nipples. However, you should not ask to feel up your female partners for "pressure point" training or you'll deserve the black eye you'll probably get). In reality, I'm not sure it would ever be possible to find, let alone strike with one knuckle, these exact spots on a moving and dressed opponent during combat. It's probably worthwhile training, but I wouldn't bet my life on it.

[Wastelander]

Kyusho is a great addition to your martial arts repertoire, although as others have mentioned, it is not something you can rely on without the support of the rest of your training. It is also not an art unto itself, because it is just another set of techniques, so I would avoid anyone claiming to have a rank in kyusho--that would be like having a rank in kicking, or in joint locking, which is just a bit silly. Kyusho also isn't mysterious or magical, and if you see any demonstrations that look magical, they are probably the result of mass hypnosis. People can be made to believe so strongly that these things work that their body will actually react the way it is "supposed" to for the demonstration.

Pressure points are simply places where nerves end, cross, or branch out, or where a large nerve or bundle of nerves is relatively unprotected, and they are particularly sensitive in those areas. Some are susceptible to being struck, some to being rubbed on, and some to simply being pressed, depending on the nerve and its surrounding environment. For the most part, they cause extra pain and not much else. Some can cause the nervous system to "short out" (for lack of a better term) which results in legs getting wobbly, arms going numb, or a "flash knockout" where the person loses consciousness for a short period of time, depending on how the pressure points are used. Also, remember that kyusho includes sensitive targets, not just pressure points, so the liver, spleen, kidneys, groin, and base of the skull are all part of it.

Basically, employing kyusho enhances the techniques you are learning by providing you with extra knowledge to make your karate more effective. If you miss or the kyusho points fail to work, the technique should still be sound enough that you will not be put at a disadvantage by using it. For example--a solid strike to the neck feels pretty terrible, even if you don't hit the vagus nerve, and it puts the striker in a good position. Hopefully this helps you out a bit!

@ bassaiguy - I actually took a seminar with Vince Morris, the founder of Kissaki-Kai, earlier this year. He was an interesting character and his techniques and principles were good. They also included the use of kyusho as I've described here, so he and my sensei are actually on the same page in that regard, despite their differences in style.

[xo-karate]

Kaj got his 7 dan from George A. Dillman. website is not very good http://www.kyushoaikijutsu.com/eng/etusivu/

I'll try some pressure point in my BJJ and we'll see if it's working. (Just need to make sure how firm my contact in breaking grips is aloud to be. - Kind of when it's blocking with a hit and when just dropping my arm as a "fast" push...)