Title VS Rank

[sensei8]

For me, Titles are more special because I couldn't earn them through any testing cycle; they were bestowed upon me from my Soke and Dai-Soke. On the other hand, Ranks belong in their context because while I earned each and every one of them, I still was allowed to test for them.

Your opinions please.

[Harkon72]

A title, when given in an Open Competition, that is open to all comers whatever their style is the true mark of a martial artist. The fact that boxing titles can be given after carefully selecting a boxer's opponents along the way discredits it if you ask me. An open well publicized event that takes in the best contenders in the world would be far more of a reflection of the fighter or Kata artist. If the judging is fair, they can hold their title with pride. I think including Karate in the Olympics would be fun, Ippon Jui Kumite; best of three bouts.

[sensei8]

The titles I'm referring to are the Shugo Titles: Renshi, Kyoshi, and Hanshi. My bad, I didn't make that clear and I'm sincerely sorry for that!!

[Harkon72]

Oh, I see, I have a view about that too, please bare with me.

My Sensei is reaching his 5th Dan this year, so he will be regarded as a Renshi, or Master of the art. If you called him "Master Williams" he would ask you to call him "Sensei" as this is his preference.

There is a very notable Shotokan Club locally were no-one has the title "Sensei" not even the two 6th Dan's. They reserve it for their Grandmaster Sensei Kawasoe.

My point is, that it's each to his own, in context, respect and value. I call my Sensei "Eric San", as this is how he refers to me.

[sensei8]

Oh, I see, I have a view about that too, please bare with me.

My Sensei is reaching his 5th Dan this year, so he will be regarded as a Renshi, or Master of the art. If you called him "Master Williams" he would ask you to call him "Sensei" as this is his preference.

There is a very notable Shotokan Club locally were no-one has the title "Sensei" not even the two 6th Dan's. They reserve it for their Grandmaster Sensei Kawasoe.

My point is, that it's each to his own, in context, respect and value. I call my Sensei "Eric San", as this is how he refers to me.

Solid post!!

My Hombu continually shoves their wanting to promote me to Kudan, and no matter what I tell them, they stop for the time being, but every year, just about the time when our annual testing cycle nears, they're back to shoving Kudan down my throat with different tactics and medicine, like I'll take it better.

NO is NO!! If Dai-Soke was still alive, the Hombu wouldn't be pressuring over and over. Dai-Soke asked me once, I refused, and on his death bed, he told me that he understood my reasons and respected me for my decision. But the Hombu can be led in certain departments by idle minded dunderheads at times.

[bushido_man96]

I'm not sure how I feel about either. If/when I pass my next testing, I'll be conferred both; rank of 4th dan, and title of Junior Master. I'm not really sure how I feel about that. I don't really want students to start calling me Jr Master Walker, but our instructor is big on etiquette, and it won't really be an option. I will also wonder to myself, "am I really a Jr. Master?" So, its a bit tough for me to think about right now.

[xo-karate]

Ranks and titles are for communication. It's something you need for your own social group -club, style or what the context is.

Boxers have titles like champ and hasbeen. In BJJ there are professors and so on.

I have one "master" title, but I don't use it. I'd like to be recognized as knowing something about martial arts, but it does not come with the title or rank. I don't know how it comes - it's not up to me, but to the social context.

Question title vs rank.. neither are very clear to other than to the tribe you are in.

(In a little outsider so only skill and knowledge are valid for me - and title might be a besserwisser - know it all

[barrypardue]

Guess i would have to go with rank because i worked really hard to get it and thus am very proud of it.

[kensei]

At some point both Title and Rank become less relevent to the enjoyment of training and working on your Karate.

I respect my seniors, those that have been in Karate longer and put time in...but I live in 2013 and Titles that were once linked to the Menkyo system are kind of silly. Its like someone walking around and speaking old English or something...it is meaningless and mis used more than anything.

The link of Rank to Title is a modern creation and one I dont adhear to at all. Kyoshi, Renshi and the like were titles or licences given to instructors from other instructors before the Kyu/Dan system was established. They fell out of use and were picked back up again by modern practitioners to feed the ego they felt needed feeding.

After nearly 40 years training in Karate and other arts those that seek rank advancement dont impress me, those that train hard and just let rank come as it comes do! I know of many 5,6,and 7th dans that dont impress me at all and I dont train with.

Skill and attitude are most important after Nidan! Thats what it should be about.

[sensei8]

I've no ego to feed. I didn't award myself, no!! My Dai-Soke awarded them to me. I've never sought out for any Title, they were bestowed upon me.

Titles are STILL be awarded in Japan and Okinawa...STILL!!

I sought out every kyu rank and every Dan rank up to Sandan, after that, I gave them no thought because it would've been useless to do so. Why? Because my Dai-Soke would let me know if it was time, not until then!!

I don't speak about myself to impress, no, I don't roll that way!!

I don't understand why I'm lampooned because I speak about Rank/Title especially when it's within our By-Laws, and the By-Laws weren't written by me. I'm just stating that my titles mean more to me than rank for reasons I've already stated.

I wish that they never existed but they do!!