Are the MMAA too dispersed nowadays?

[oitsuki]

What do you think, guys?. This is my (humble) opinion, at least: as the traveling is quite easier than only 50 years ago and with more and more time of the middle class people devoted to sports and "free time", I think that we are seeing MIXTURE at all levels: arts, science and of course, our dear Martial Arts.

This means that everywhere you take a look, hundreds of new styles are created mixing the old ones, sometimes even effectively replacing it. For example, I am very interested on learning Traditional Wing Chun, and in Spain this is getting more and more difficult, since the (supposed) "best Wing Chun instructor in Spain" has created a new style (Wing Revolution) from the old one, and many instructors have passed to this new style, leaving Traditional Wing Chun.

So, what's your opinion?, don't you miss the "good old times" when the styles were more "pure" and there were no so much mixture among them?.

Regards

[Lupin1]

I'm not quite sure that time ever existed. Even my main style of Isshinryu was developed from our founder taking what he learned from Goju and Shorinryu and a few other things and mixing them together. The creators of the "traditional" styles all took from other styles or from different instructors and mixed and matched and put them together. The martial arts are always changing and evolving and have always been that way.

I think whether you like older styles or newer styles is just a matter of preference. I prefer the more traditional "feel", but have no problems taking things from different styles to add to what I know.

[kensei]

I agree with Oitsuki, Their never was a time when "traditional" meant what you were learning went back much more than 50 years or less to when it was merged with different styles or changed in some way.

Even my Shotokan Style was created by merging two styles of Tode in Okinawa and then underwent major changes several times when Kendo Ideas were introduced as well as when Gigo Funikoshi changed things around...then Nakayama and finally the last generation changed things as well.

Styles will change based on ideas of who is in charge. I like the "Traditional" feel of Shotokan vs say a kick boxing school, but that is all. I dont think one is better than the other in reality. they are both stand up styles and if you have a good athletic young man in both the style is almost not important.

The diversity in styles is a good thing in some ways and with some styles, and in other ways and other styles,.....well the watering down and the complete mental changes that are made seem to ruin the styles.

It all depends on what your goals are...and how the changes are made, some are good and some not so good.

[MasterPain]

I don't think Odin or Ares or Agnes ever handed down a set curriculum, therefore there is no pure martial art. There is only movement and the mind and spirit, things that should not be stagnant.

[bushido_man96]

I also feel that as long as you have people learning things from other people, those who learn and gain their own experiences will do things that are more pertinent to them and their own experience. Its only natural. We all learn things, but two people can learn the same thing from the same instructor, but over time apply it differently.

The other factor is that times change, and along with that, technology and knowledge changes. You can drive a model T Ford if you like, but it isn't as fast, powerful, or efficient as today's vehicles. Also, Ford made changes as he developed new vehicles; he didn't stay with his first model and call it good.

So in my opinion, the changes we see taking place in the Martial Arts is really only a natural process. I think it has been going on for a long time, but we just notice it more now with the availability of information through internet and other news outlets.

[lowereastside]

Martial Arts - Its all Homogenized. Most of the Kung Fu styles today are not that old - I'm talking about 150/200 years old - not 3000/5000 years old. The sytle of kung Fu that I practice - IMHO was put together by my Grandteacher - still effective but not that old.

And I will say the same with karate - still effective but not that old.

[oitsuki]

@lowereastside I agree, they are not so old, in fact, the MMAA are always evolving. That leads me to the next questions: it is because they are not so effective or because we don't have found yet the PERFECT MA?.

I don't know. Maybe there is no PERFECT MA. Although the human being it more or less the same nowadays that 1000 years ago, the food we take is not the same, the weapons are not the same, etc. Maybe that is what boosts the evolution on the MA.

Regards

[lowereastside]

oitsuki says -" @lowereastside I agree, they are not so old, in fact, the MMAA are always evolving. That leads me to the next questions: it is because they are not so effective or because we don't have found yet the PERFECT MA?.

I don't know. Maybe there is no PERFECT MA. Although the human being it more or less the same nowadays that 1000 years ago, the food we take is not the same, the weapons are not the same, etc. Maybe that is what boosts the evolution on the MA. "

PERFECT MA?. - Let me put this way - you can be a high school baseball - a pitcher - striking out everyone you face - well I guess your PERFECT. Then that high school player faces a college level player and he is not so PERFECT -

then he faces a minor league then a major league player and that person becomes less and less PERFECT. When I can beat everyone on this PLANET - ME and my MARTIAL ARTS will be PERFECT.

oitsuki - nice post and your bringing out valid points. My take is that things are always changing - evolving. And systems just started to add and add -lets develope another Kata(s) - 5 katas/Forms are not enough we need 10. Take the staff - I learned 1 staff form - however, there are styles out there teaching 5-7-10 staff forms. For crying out load it's a stick - plain and simple. I have a friend who studied 7 Star Praying Mantis - he learned over 60 forms - In our conversation one evening he confided that there were only 4 core forms - that each generation added. Even in my style of Praying Mantis things have changed - From 1 form to 4.forms - and some instructor's just keep adding more. Sometimes evolution is good and sometimes it's not. This is one of the reasons MA have lost some of it's effectiveness IMHO. When I started Kung Fu I spent the 1st year just on the basics - before learning the 1st form - then spent another 4 years just on the 1st form ( The form was taken apart and then put together ). Also the developmental and basics have gone out the window for most part. Listen I could write a book - there is so much more to say. I was lucky I guess - to find the right teacher for me.

I teach 14 students - 12 are teachers of other arts ( Karate - Kung Fu.... ) the average 30 years of experience - After a couple of classes - i'm not kidding - they shake their heads saying why is it that what i'm teaching is not in their previous MA training. Why because - things are either held back or lost or the student can't pick it up........I hope that I kinda answered your question. Sometimes ( for me ) it hard getting my point across in writing.

[bushido_man96]

@lowereastside I agree, they are not so old, in fact, the MMAA are always evolving. That leads me to the next questions: it is because they are not so effective or because we don't have found yet the PERFECT MA?.

I don't know. Maybe there is no PERFECT MA. Although the human being it more or less the same nowadays that 1000 years ago, the food we take is not the same, the weapons are not the same, etc. Maybe that is what boosts the evolution on the MA.

Regards

I don't think the perfect MA can be reached. There is always something to tweak or adjust, and there are always different scenarios that create different conditions for what we have to apply. Combat is chaos; hence, I don't think combat perfectness can be achieved. We search for combat effectiveness.

[SifuGazz]

I also feel that as long as you have people learning things from other people, those who learn and gain their own experiences will do things that are more pertinent to them and their own experience. Its only natural. We all learn things, but two people can learn the same thing from the same instructor, but over time apply it differently.

The other factor is that times change, and along with that, technology and knowledge changes. You can drive a model T Ford if you like, but it isn't as fast, powerful, or efficient as today's vehicles. Also, Ford made changes as he developed new vehicles; he didn't stay with his first model and call it good.

So in my opinion, the changes we see taking place in the Martial Arts is really only a natural process. I think it has been going on for a long time, but we just notice it more now with the availability of information through internet and other news outlets.

Exactly, I was going to say something similar.