Everything starts with technique, but tech. isn't everything

[lowereastside]

Everyone is bringing out valid points - different strokes for different folks - I Have a classmate who is 85 years young - His technique is not the most refined - but the man hits like a mule - there are many variables. Its not just one thing - by the way my friend today is very physical he can still do 40 pushups and 150 situps. I also know of 2 other individuals from different styles who are also up in age who follow the same path my 85 year young friend. Look everyone is different with different situations - like i said good points by everyone.

[Kusotare]

Interesting subject.

There are 3 pillars to combative success imo, and the understanding of how to maximise the correct biomechanical use of your body is just one of them.

That part, we continually polish and hone through the practice of ongoing kihon (basics), but on its own, it is not enough (from a combative point of view anyway).

K.

[SifuGazz]

I think there is big difference between learning a technique v learning a concept. Perhaps the poster meant the latter...if so disregard.

From one type of motion(s), done with certain body mechanics countless techniques can flow. It is not the specific technique that is important, it is the motion, the mechanics, the ability to react dynamically with that motion, and apply it in one of the infinite variables of a chaotic situation.

Focus on single techniques gives one a huge index of choices as a response to different stimuli, yes. But this is hard to manifest real-time.

Obviously fitness level is also very important among the other factors listed.

Best,

G

[Tkdampbjj]

I feel technique is essential, but can be trumped by strength and athleticism. Both have the ability to beat each other depending on the situation. I had a student who was 6"3, personal trainer, shredded, almost went into the nba. Now my technique was better, but he was super fast and kicked like a mule. I would have a hell of a time sparring him even though my technique sw better.

At the same time I have seen how important technique is in jits with a smaller weaker person owning me with technique. It can go both ways and is a case to case basis. But if size, speed, athleticism, had no importance mma fighters wouldn't work so hard on conditioning.

[MasterPain]

I think the last couple posts were dead-on.

[T3chnopsycho]

I agree with both points.

On one hand a person with large physical power can be beaten by someone weeker who has a better technique. Like not getting hit or through countering. On the other hand someone with technique can still lose if he (in case of a real fight) can't bring up enough hitting power to do serious damage because the other guy just has a huge endurance.

Anyway in the end both things are important and if you want to grow you have to train and exercise your techniques (to get faster less obvious and to be able to use more power) and your physical state (to get faster more enduring and just to have more that you can then put in your technique).

Cheers

[ps1]

I agree that technique is important, and I don't think it should ever by forgone. But, I also think that strength and speed, although they do fade with time, a surprising amount of it can be retained through training. Not all of it, but some of it.

This is only true in rare cases. Certainly training throughout life is important. Maintaining a good strength and conditioning regimin and healthy lifestyle is always important. But the number of 80 year olds, whose strength can match a 25, 35, or even 45 year olds is near zero. There are some, but this represents less than 1% of the total population. Certainly, their starting point of strength being relatively high will lead to their ending point (at death) being higher as well. So if we apply a 1 to 10 scale and the average person has a 5 and you are an 8. You may maintain that 8, relative to age, throughout your life. However, an 8 for an 80 year old is likely to be close to a 1 or 2 for a 25yr old.

I also think its important that we not forget that the experience that comes with time and training also add to one's ability. Your armbar technique can be spot on, but without the experience to make it work in various situations, using setups, etc, it likely isn't worth much.

To me this is a matter of semantics. Instrinsic with proper technique is timing. A teeter totter doesn't work unless the timing of each person's push is correct. Setups, timing, and an understanding of when to use a move is all part of proper technique.

It all works together. And it all starts with technique. Adding in strength, experience, speed, etc, make it all better.

Again, i would not argue this. The more equal two people's technique is, the more the athletic traits begin to matter. This is the reason for weight divisions in nearly every combat sport. The best flyweight wrestler in the world will get tossed like a rag doll by the best heavyweight. But that's a sport.

At 92 years old Helio Gracie allowed Saulo Ribeiro (then in his physical prime) to mount him. Despite all of his strength, skill, and speed, Saulo could not submit Helio. Saulo is a 6 time world champion. But Helio's understading of technique was too good. Saulo could not do it. This type of thing is noted in many different places over the years. Look at old judo masters. If they make it long enough, and continue practicing, they have no choice but to get good technique. Otherwise they can't continue.

I see this all the time in Jiu-jitsu. People focus too much on athletics and do not focus enough on technique. They make it to blue and sometimes even purple belt, then wash out. They depend too much on athletic skills and not enough on technique. When the smaller and less athletic guys start winning, the stronger faster and bigger people can't handle it. So they quit.

Technique reigns supreme. Always.

[bushido_man96]

I see this all the time in Jiu-jitsu. People focus too much on athletics and do not focus enough on technique. They make it to blue and sometimes even purple belt, then wash out. They depend too much on athletic skills and not enough on technique. When the smaller and less athletic guys start winning, the stronger faster and bigger people can't handle it. So they quit.

I agree with you here. I don't think strength and athletic ability should be what is relied upon completely. I do think that they are helpful in the long run assist what skill in technique brings, as well.

As for proper timing being part of what technique is, I don't necessarily agree with you there, but I think that's just a spot we will disagree on. I think experience is its own monster, adding to technique along with other aspects of ability. Part of this probably comes from the fact that I don't experience techniques the same way in TKD as you do in BJJ. I can have good, sound technique in a solo forms performance, but the lack of timing can be evident in sparring use of the same techniques (which unfortunately, often does show up...).

But, I appreciate your thoughts, and you make a very good point.

[T3chnopsycho]

Not sure if what I wrote was what I wanted to say...

And I just had an idea to write it short

For me the important thing is the technique. Without you can't be a good MA-Fighter because it's what differentiates a Martial Artist from a Bodybuilder.

But...

To make your techniques overall stronger and yourself a better Martial Artist and Fighter you need to also train your bode --> More endurance, --> more power that you can put in your techniques

cheers

[Chunmonchek]

Either strength or technique can carry the day.

Having both is obviously better...

...and if you train long and hard enough, IMO, the two become more and more indistinguishable...strong technique. There is a difference than just having both.

That said, mindset and conditioning may be more important factors...but that may be the subject for a different thread.

Here's one for T3...