chris Posted September 26, 2002 Share Posted September 26, 2002 (edited) >Your notion that zenkutsudachi is jiyu-kamae is just plain wrong. There really is no other way around it.< Not worth my while arguing a point I already made, but to you, obvious has a different meaning, I see. Re-read what I said and see that there was nowhere mentioned, or implied that zenkutsu dachi 'is' a jiyu kamae. I see a problem though with your generalizing, or 'sensing' this and the other, by simply assuming 'cause you just know it is so. I saw many places you said that you were not sure, or you supposed that it was so; is that a good foundation for you to generalize facts which have nothing in common sometimes? Generalizing is the argument of all who usually don't know. That just simply does not apply to each individual, style, school, thought, feeling, stance and so on. Wood and brain don't have the same meaning, I agree, but I wonder about the resemblance of their essence, sometimes. Edited November 13, 2003 by chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Groenewold Posted September 26, 2002 Share Posted September 26, 2002 Very interesting and amusing post, Chris. Your style of oblique ad hominem attack is most interesting. You had seemed to be a "straight shooter" a "tell-it-like-it-is" kind of person. Regrettably, you must even disappoint yourself in this particular event. At any rate, I believe that the main focus of this thread was in response to what is the JKA, what does it mean to be a member of the JKA, and how all that fits together. Since the initial worthy attempt to address these things you have decided to make this thread something about you. And when the topic is not about you, you attack others. Silly. Juvenile. Ridiculous. Nevertheless, for those of you reading this thread and who would like to continue this discussion in earnest I would be most interested to continue exchanging ideas and points of view. For those of you who wish to engage Chris further on his thesis on himself, please continue to do so. I would like to merely stick to the issues and lay off the personalities. Best regards to all (even you Chris!) Mark Groenewold Kanazawa, Japan See how karate is done in Japan.http://www.karatethejapaneseway.commark@karatethejapaneseway.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZakariRu Posted September 27, 2002 Share Posted September 27, 2002 Sorry I have been mia But as far as i can remember Asai sensei lost that court battle And both sides of the org after nakayamas death were using the name JKA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted September 27, 2002 Share Posted September 27, 2002 (edited) >Sorry I have been mia < Perfectly understood! MG could have sold tickets at the corner of 42nd st for the show. >But as far as i can remember Asai sensei lost that court battle < And you want to point with that at what? The court battle was about the use of the name, not about the use of karate, or its quality on either side. Asai sensei, in the mind of many instructors around the world, including the most at the JKA, is perhaps one of the most inovative karateka ever. Conflicts of interests are based on personal issues for the most part. People don't usually get along with one another because of different attitudes and what they stand for(i.e. what you have witnessed so far on this thread). Karate, as Nakayama sensei put it one time, supposed to build bridges between people, not enlarge gaps between them. >And both sides of the org after nakayamas death were using the name JKA< For ten years, until as you said, Asai sensei lost by the court's decision to use that name again. In fact, Asai re-made himself once again. One must have a great deal of confidence and skills, not to mention talents, in order to be able to rise from its own ashes the way he had done over the years. Edited November 13, 2003 by chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted September 27, 2002 Share Posted September 27, 2002 (edited) >Your style of oblique ad hominem attack< Watch it! You are using languages you don't understand. >You had seemed to be a "straight shooter" a "tell-it-like-it-is" kind of person.< I thought you said that I was doing the opposite... are you ever going to make up your mind? >Regrettably, you must even disappoint yourself in this particular event.< In your opinion, or what? As much as you wish otherwise, I stand by what I say. >At any rate, I believe that the main focus of this thread was in response to what is the JKA, what does it mean to be a member of the JKA, and how all that fits together.< Alleluia! I thought you'd never see it! It's what I have been trying to tell you for the past three mesages I posted here. Good step forward! >Since the initial worthy attempt to address these things you have decided to make this thread something about you.< Now, look at the messages and try to depict the contents... oh, no, in order to that, you will have to recognize another's point of view... ahhh, what a pity. >And when the topic is not about you, you attack others.< It is about an objective point, not about a person. You are the one to take it all personal. Now, don't expect it when you take it personal, to have people bow before you. As I said, you want a close up, you'll have it. Are you continuing about this still?! >Silly. Juvenile. Ridiculous.< Because you have separated from the context, I have to agree with you if this is a way to express yourself about your attitude. Well done; another step forward! >Nevertheless, for those of you reading this thread and who would like to continue this discussion in earnest I would be most interested to continue exchanging ideas and points of view.< I am sure there are enough people here who will see your subtle, but not remarkable way of projecting your faults on them. It is a cowardish way, but I have not known you being any better in the past, so, I wouldn't expect any less. I am still suggesting to you, please take your personal vendettas some other place, or carry it to my personal box if you dare. I am sure you would not do it because of other issues, includng the fact that legally, that puts you on the spot. Edited November 13, 2003 by chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Groenewold Posted September 28, 2002 Share Posted September 28, 2002 Ok Chris, I think that we have had enough tit-for-tat stuff for the time being. I really don't know what is in you to be so provocative and agressive. But that's OK. I don't care. You are a hyper-sensative person and you have wasted enough bandwidth with your prattle. In all your verbosity, convoluted statements, and bizarre extrapolations from what has been written and said you have managed to present yourself in the full rainbow of psychological challenges which would give most shrinks a lifetime of work on their couches. Don't go around challenging me. It's a waste of time and certainly not in your best interest. And then you allude to legal trouble I may be in? Please, you make me laugh. And then you call me a coward to try to goad me? LOL! Get lost. Our communication with one another is terminated. You may (and certainly will no doubt) say what you wish about me. But I think that your track record with others, and then with those who will meet you in future days, will always speak for itself. I wonder how many people you have met in all your years of training will stand up and say that yes they know you, call you friend, and will stand by you. I think that the very nature of how you conduct yourself and speak to others drives others away. And rightfully so. Your conduct is offensive and repugnant. I am certain that you will feel the knee-jerk desire to blast away and respond to what I have written here. If it will help you vent your spleen, by all means, do so. I will consider it my small contribution to your psychological rehabilitation. As for me, I think that I will just try to stick to the karate at hand. The rest, the backbiting, badmouthing, gossip and inuendo, maligning of others' characters, bitter venom, and verbal diarrhea is all yours. Bugger off. Most sincerely, Mark Groenewold Kanazawa, Japan See how karate is done in Japan.http://www.karatethejapaneseway.commark@karatethejapaneseway.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted September 28, 2002 Share Posted September 28, 2002 (edited) >Ok Chris...< It's nothing ok between us. >I think that we have had enough tit-for-tat stuff for the time being.< I kept telling you this for a long time, but you don't seem to be able to get it. >I really don't know what is in you to be so provocative and agressive. But that's OK. I don't care.< Then heil off! In your case, considering your past personal vendettas in my case, I will take it personal if you don't stick to the subject. >You are a hyper-sensative...< If you look back on your other messages, you'll see some more of these misspells. So, same blames you bequeth upon others don't apply to you, right? >In all your verbosity, convoluted statements, and bizarre extrapolations from what has been written and said you have managed to present yourself in the full rainbow of psychological challenges which would give most shrinks a lifetime of work on their couches.< Your expressive self pity comes always in the way of making a valid point. For the most part, I have to agree with the fact that, your projection on others has brought you far on the scale of sore losers. >Don't go around challenging me.< I don't! I wouldn't get anything worth my while out of it! >It's a waste of time and certainly not in your best interest.< Threats won't work with me. Certainly I don't really have any interest in your egotistical endeavors. >And then you allude to legal trouble I may be in?< I don't allude! I ask you to consider it seriously when you send me defamatory messages to my personal account. >Our communication with one another is terminated.< I heard that before from you, but you can't control your anal urges. Your last personal message was promising the same with more towards an excusable attitude on your part, but you didn't really think I believed you, did you! >You may (and certainly will no doubt)...< Say what? >But I think that your track record with others, and then with those who will meet you in future days, will always speak for itself.< Are you talking about your couple of internet buddies whom you had time by now to stink their minds with nonsense? As if I care! Knowing the way things are, it takes more than just gossip and lies on your part. You don't know what you are talking about and you want to make others who read you think that in fact you do. Heck, if life would be that easy! > I wonder how many people you have met in all your years of training will stand up and say that yes they know you, call you friend, and will stand by you.< All those you don't know! Wonder if you wish, but won't help you sense anything, like in most cases about your knowledge of all things. Again, subtle as you may think you are, not all are as clumsy as you wish they would be, not to see your trying to distract attention from your wimpiness. >I think that the very nature of how you conduct yourself and speak to others drives others away. And rightfully so. Your conduct is offensive and repugnant.< In your case, well, taking into account your past record about false accusations and pretenses, I will take it personal and offensive. >I am certain that you will feel the knee-jerk desire to blast away and respond to what I have written here. If it will help you vent your spleen, by all means, do so. I will consider it my small contribution to your psychological rehabilitation.< Although you are trying desperately to use words to strike with, your clumsy attitude and balistic urge to self pity, will prove to make you inefficient... just like in karate. >As for me...< There we go again... >I think that I will just try to stick to the karate at hand.< What, did you want another alleluia, or applause? I kept telling you this for the past few days, but you just seemed to be too busy with your egomaniac contractions to pay attention to detail. Read through with a dictionary if that helps: I will not give you the satisfaction, nor the last word in your personal vendettas towards me. Consider taking a cold shower, or banging your head on a door if it suits you better, but take your self pity and cowardice attitude some place else. Edited January 6, 2004 by chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaiFightsMS Posted September 28, 2002 Share Posted September 28, 2002 Everyone please remember to be civil and respond to each other with respect. This issue is a political one and as such will in certain areas bring out hot debate. Opinion is welcome here. And everyone has a right to express their opinion provided they can do so in a respectful manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Groenewold Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 Thank you SaifightsMS for your comments. I agree that it is important to respond to others' posts with respect, but only if it is merited. There have been a variety of personal attacks in this thread, and although I do not necessarily retract a syllable of what I have written, I certainly apologize to bystanders in this discussion who are offended by what I have said. I have only myself to blame in my responses and am sorry if my comments to the umbrageous posts aimed my way offend the sensibilities of others. I did not know that "chris" was actually someone with whom I have had contact with previously and did not know it was the same person until a few posts into our "discussion". Now that I know who I am dealing with clearly, I shall respond in these forums with due caution and simply ask that chris refrain from any further personal attacks. I shall certainly do the same. Regards, Mark Groenewold See how karate is done in Japan.http://www.karatethejapaneseway.commark@karatethejapaneseway.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaiFightsMS Posted September 30, 2002 Share Posted September 30, 2002 Well said. And yes, there is a certain amount of cross posting that goes on in the on-line world. It is kind of rare I think for someone to post or to read in just one forum or just one club site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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