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Posted

I'm reading The Encyclopedia of Taekwon-do Patterns, vol 1, by Stuart Anslow, and before getting into the patterns themselves, he has a page where he lists the above mentioned "Standards." Some I agree with, and some I don't, but I think they all warrant some discussion, and I don't feel they are exclusive to TKD patterns, as many other styles likely feel the same way on some or all.

Here they are:

1. All patterns start and finish on the same spot.

I don't really agree with this one so much. When I was in the ATA, the patterns were designed to do that, and I usually got close, but never usually dead on. In the TTA now, with some of the modifications made in techniques and stepping in regards to the ITF forms we do, some of the forms just don't end in the same place they started. Won Hyo, for instance, in our org, ends up about a sitting stance length to the right of where we start. Although I think starting and ending on the same spot can be beneficial, I think the techniques are the most important aspect, and look to get the techniques down, along with the stances, with power and speed. Just my thought.

2. Each pattern should be performed in a rhythmic motion without stiffness.

I pretty well agree with this. One should look comfortable when doing a form. Power should flow smoothly through speed and technique. Breathing should be a factor in this, as well. I also think its important to get the right combinations in the form together in the proper rhythm.

3. Each technique should be fully formed before moving onto the next.

Again, agreed. Incomplete techniques running together is just sloppy.

4. Techniques should be performed with realism.

Agreed. If you throw a punch, throw it like you would punch someone trying to hurt you. If its a block, block as if your life depends on it. If you have bunkai and know it, visualize the bunkai working as you perform the technique.

5. Correct breathing should be performed throughout each pattern.

Agreed. Some people breath in on each chamber, and out on the execution of each technique. Some will work it between certain techniques. However its done, being consistent and rhythmic will keep the form rhythmic.

6. Correct posture and muscle tension should be utilized in all techniques.

Agreed. We have a fellow in our school testing for 1st dan soon, and he had good power, but tends to keep everything to tensed up, and is holding his own performance back. Relaxed tension at the beginning, with good kime at the completion of the techniques. Correct posture lends to good balance, and better technical performance.

7. Each pattern should be perfected before moving onto the next.

This one, I don't agree with as much. White belts aren't going to be perfect at their testing. They're white belts. I think there are good intentions in this standard by Mr. Anslow, and perhaps I am reading too much into it, and taking it too literally. I know no one can be perfect, so I won't get into that whole mess. But, I think that the early stages are going to be far from perfect, but improvements will be seen, and its up to the instructor to figure out what is acceptable and what is not for white belts, orange belts, and other beginner grades.

So overall, I don't disagree much, and where I do disagree is probably more of a semantics issue than anything else. I do think these are good standards to live by for forms practice, though. I'd like to hear the thoughts of everyone else, and if there are standards you would add, let's hear them!

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Posted

1. All patterns start and finish on the same spot.

Within Shindokan, they do and they better start and end in the same spot. If not, then the kata is incorrect across the board concerning every aspect of ashi sabaki [Footwork].

2. Each pattern should be performed in a rhythmic motion without stiffness.

Rhythmic...No! Timing...Yes! Both of these words aren't the same. Kata is NOT a dance. No technique, no matter how small or big should ever be executed until that very moment demands to do so, no sooner or later.

3. Each technique should be fully formed before moving onto the next.

Exactly!! Like you say Brian, sloppy isn't good at all, plus, ineffective.

4. Techniques should be performed with realism.

Kime...FOCUS!! Treat each technique accordingly to the level that they deserve.

5. Correct breathing should be performed throughout each pattern.

Breathing is paramount. Can't hold your breathe throughout the entire kata because you might pass out/die. Proper breathing oxygenates the muscles. When and where one should breath in/out is dependent on how the kata is taught per the style. One last point, relax your breathing.

6. Correct posture and muscle tension should be utilized in all techniques.

As in everything in the MA, there's a time for this and for that. Postures time is NOW and ALWAYS...Muscle tensions time is NOW at its exact moment; with no ambiguity whatsoever. Remove/shorten one of the chair legs, the chair falls over or the chair leans; neither are good.

7. Each pattern should be perfected before moving onto the next.

IMPOSSIBLE!! We're imperfect, and in that, we will never perfect anything!! It's doesn't mean that we shouldn't try; it's the journey and not the goal that drives me. Having said that, I've not perfected even the most basic kata!!

Great topic Brian!!

:)

**Proof is on the floor!!!

Posted

I think these are a modification on the standards lain down by Gen. Choi for ITF practitioners. (See page 524 of the 4th edition Encylopedia). So they were said with the ITF patterns in mind and not necessary as a rule for all styles or all kata sets.

Also online here:

http://www.comdo.com/patterns.html

Here's what's in the book:

PATTERNS: ESSENTIAL INFORMATION . The following points should be considered while performing patterns:

1. Pattern should begin and end at exactly the same spot. This will indicate the performer's accuracy.

2. Correct posture and facing must be maintained at all times.

3. Muscles of the body should be either tensed or relaxed at the proper critical moments in the exercise.

4. The exercise should be performed in a rhythmic movement with an absence of stiffness.

5. Movement should be accelerated or decelerated according to the instructions in this book.

6. Each pattern should be perfected before moving to the next .

7. Students should know the purpose of each movement.

8. Students should perform each movement with realism.

9. Attack and defence techniques should be equally distributed among right and left hands and feet.

But anyway, wrt to the one's Mr. Anslow uses:

1. All patterns start and finish on the same spot.

For ITF forms this should be a yes. They were designed in such a way that they should always come back to the same spot if your stances and stepping is correct. In gradings/competition this is one of the key things that you better get right otherwise it indicates that something is fundamentally wrong. But of course this doesn't hold true if you don't practice a form set that does come back to the same marker.

2. Each pattern should be performed in a rhythmic motion without stiffness.

Again I think this should be taken in context of it being for ITF. I know Mr. Anslow doesn't do sine wave but when these points were lain down it was for people who did sine wave and good rhythm = good pattern for the system. In ITF we have set motions and set timings for everything and if it doesn't fit the correct motion, you're doing it wrong.

I guess you can also take this statement to mean that there shouldn't be any stiffness or blockiness to your actions and that smooth = fast.

3. Each technique should be fully formed before moving onto the next.

 

4. Techniques should be performed with realism.

5. Correct breathing should be performed throughout each pattern.

I think these are pretty self-explanatory and most people would agree with them.

6. Correct posture and muscle tension should be utilized in all techniques.

This seems to be a combination of points 2 and 3 from the list I posted. Again I don't think anyone will disagree with this. I will add though that I also think that along with correct muscle tension, correct muscle relaxation should be considered. I may just be being picky with the semantics but it is not good to be tense throughout the entire thing. Relaxation is key too.

7. Each pattern should be perfected before moving onto the next.

Again this seems to be taken from the original list. I think it's more to do with not rushing ahead and kata collecting. I always interpreted it as "perfect for the belt level you are at". So when you're a 6th gup and you're just learning your new pattern, you are expected to perform it how a 6th gup should look. So you do it with all the understanding and power etc. of a 6th gup. Not perfect it as such but do it as best as possible. Then when you're a 1st dan and you do that same form, it should be a perfected to a 1st dan level as your understanding and ability should be miles ahead.

The original points I quoted from the book go hand in hand with the 9 training secrets ITF students are also meant to try to do.

"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius

Posted

In Shotokan we had 4 criteria in running kata:

1. Hand and foot move at the same time

2. Back Straight

3. Head Level

4. Start and End on the same spot

However, components of a good technique include:

1. Proper breathing

2. Proper timing

3. Proper focus

4. Zanshin

So, technically, the 4 components of a good technique would also be components of good kata.

On a personal note: I do tend to agree with #7 as stated. I don't really see the point on learning countless kata and performing them just ok. I'm more a fan of only learning between 5 and 7 prior to Shodan. Learning a new one before truly understanding the current kata is sometimes a waste, in my opinion.

"It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenius."

Posted

I'm pretty certain that the whole "Kata must start and finish on the same spot" was something introduced by the early Shotokan instructors in the Japanese universities at the time - in order to make it more regimented.

Earlier version of the kata rarely started and finished in the same spot.

K.

Usque ad mortem bibendum!

Posted (edited)
I think these are a modification on the standards lain down by Gen. Choi for ITF practitioners. (See page 524 of the 4th edition Encylopedia). So they were said with the ITF patterns in mind and not necessary as a rule for all styles or all kata sets.

Also online here:

http://www.comdo.com/patterns.html

Here's what's in the book:

PATTERNS: ESSENTIAL INFORMATION . The following points should be considered while performing patterns:

1. Pattern should begin and end at exactly the same spot. This will indicate the performer's accuracy.

2. Correct posture and facing must be maintained at all times.

3. Muscles of the body should be either tensed or relaxed at the proper critical moments in the exercise.

4. The exercise should be performed in a rhythmic movement with an absence of stiffness.

5. Movement should be accelerated or decelerated according to the instructions in this book.

6. Each pattern should be perfected before moving to the next .

7. Students should know the purpose of each movement.

8. Students should perform each movement with realism.

9. Attack and defence techniques should be equally distributed among right and left hands and feet.

I found the same list in Encyclopedia of Taekwon-do, vol 1, pp 154-155.

1. All patterns start and finish on the same spot.

For ITF forms this should be a yes. They were designed in such a way that they should always come back to the same spot if your stances and stepping is correct. In gradings/competition this is one of the key things that you better get right otherwise it indicates that something is fundamentally wrong. But of course this doesn't hold true if you don't practice a form set that does come back to the same marker.

And I understand this, as well. Gen. Choi did design the forms to be such that they did start and end in the same spot. I don't know how or why the changes came around for the way we do these forms (although I have some suspicions...), but the footwork differences don't always allow for us to end on up the same spot.

2. Each pattern should be performed in a rhythmic motion without stiffness.

Again I think this should be taken in context of it being for ITF. I know Mr. Anslow doesn't do sine wave but when these points were lain down it was for people who did sine wave and good rhythm = good pattern for the system. In ITF we have set motions and set timings for everything and if it doesn't fit the correct motion, you're doing it wrong.

I guess you can also take this statement to mean that there shouldn't be any stiffness or blockiness to your actions and that smooth = fast.

I've watched a lot of ITF patterns on YouTube, and I see this rhythm in the way they do it. We don't use those rhythms, but tend to make more combinations, and the forms tend to flow faster in general. But, I think that this standard can hold true for any type of rhythm, so long as it seems logical.

7. Each pattern should be perfected before moving onto the next.

Again this seems to be taken from the original list. I think it's more to do with not rushing ahead and kata collecting. I always interpreted it as "perfect for the belt level you are at". So when you're a 6th gup and you're just learning your new pattern, you are expected to perform it how a 6th gup should look. So you do it with all the understanding and power etc. of a 6th gup. Not perfect it as such but do it as best as possible. Then when you're a 1st dan and you do that same form, it should be a perfected to a 1st dan level as your understanding and ability should be miles ahead.

You nailed it here. Like I said, I think I looked too far into the semantics, and you really cleared this up for me. Spot on.

Edited by bushido_man96
Posted
I'm pretty certain that the whole "Kata must start and finish on the same spot" was something introduced by the early Shotokan instructors in the Japanese universities at the time - in order to make it more regimented.

Earlier version of the kata rarely started and finished in the same spot.

K.

I believe there is truth to this. I can't remember which kata it is that has the 3 backwards jumps in it to make it end on the same spot, but I fail to see any practicality involved with the maneuver, and it seems pointless to do it just to get it back to the same spot.

Posted

Shotokan's Chinte has three little hops at the end. There used to be a forum called e-budo where there was a thread that went on for about two years regarding the Chinte hops. It's a strange move because if you just wanted to get back to the start point you could simply step back, but the three hops have become standard. There is some bunkai for the move, but I think they are pretty far-fetched.

From my research, certain Chinese and Okinawan forms have always ended on the same spot, but some did not. So it's not a Shotokan invention to end where you start. It IS however a Shotokan invention for EVERY kata to start and end at the same place.

"Honour, not honours." ~ Sir Richard Francis Burton


http://oronokarate.weebly.com

Posted

I've never meet, nor have I ever been taught, a kata where the start/finishing spot didn't arrive at the very same exact location.

:)

**Proof is on the floor!!!

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