I thought i knew my katas

[chunkymunky74]

Hello Again

As a follow on from my from my original post i have a question which i hope someone could shed some light on.

Many moons ago i started my training in Shotokan under the watchful gaze of the late Sensei Ray Fuller of the Thames flavoured Shotokan, learning my katas from my sensei and via a 3472nd generation copy of Sensei Kanazawas kata video.

Spool on a (ahem) number of of years and i am now training with JKA and i have now noticed that there are a number of small differences in the kata. The ones i am dealing with at the moment are in Bassai Daisuch as - once upon a time move seven the sukui uke (scooping block) was more of a duck and block than it is now.

I was just wondering why changes are made, and to what purpose?

[Wastelander]

Hello Again

As a follow on from my from my original post i have a question which i hope someone could shed some light on.

Many moons ago i started my training in Shotokan under the watchful gaze of the late Sensei Ray Fuller of the Thames flavoured Shotokan, learning my katas from my sensei and via a 3472nd generation copy of Sensei Kanazawas kata video.

Spool on a (ahem) number of of years and i am now training with JKA and i have now noticed that there are a number of small differences in the kata. The ones i am dealing with at the moment are in Bassai Daisuch as - once upon a time move seven the sukui uke (scooping block) was more of a duck and block than it is now.

I was just wondering why changes are made, and to what purpose?

Changes are made to kata for a wide variety of reasons. Here are some I can think of off the top of my head:

- To make a movement "fit" the way they think the style should work

- To make a movement "fit" the way they think the style should look

- To make a movement more interesting-looking for competition

- To make a movement easier to do in their old age or with their injuries

- To make a movement easier to teach to large groups

- To make a movement safer to practice

- Because they forgot how it was supposed to be done

- Because people in the organization disagree about how it was supposed to be done and had to compromise

[ps1]

Hello Again

As a follow on from my from my original post i have a question which i hope someone could shed some light on.

Many moons ago i started my training in Shotokan under the watchful gaze of the late Sensei Ray Fuller of the Thames flavoured Shotokan, learning my katas from my sensei and via a 3472nd generation copy of Sensei Kanazawas kata video.

Spool on a (ahem) number of of years and i am now training with JKA and i have now noticed that there are a number of small differences in the kata. The ones i am dealing with at the moment are in Bassai Daisuch as - once upon a time move seven the sukui uke (scooping block) was more of a duck and block than it is now.

I was just wondering why changes are made, and to what purpose?

Changes are made to kata for a wide variety of reasons. Here are some I can think of off the top of my head:

- To make a movement "fit" the way they think the style should work

- To make a movement "fit" the way they think the style should look

- To make a movement more interesting-looking for competition

- To make a movement easier to do in their old age or with their injuries

- To make a movement easier to teach to large groups

- To make a movement safer to practice

- Because they forgot how it was supposed to be done

- Because people in the organization disagree about how it was supposed to be done and had to compromise

^

That sums it up. Well said Wastelander.

[sensei8]

Hello Again

As a follow on from my from my original post i have a question which i hope someone could shed some light on.

Many moons ago i started my training in Shotokan under the watchful gaze of the late Sensei Ray Fuller of the Thames flavoured Shotokan, learning my katas from my sensei and via a 3472nd generation copy of Sensei Kanazawas kata video.

Spool on a (ahem) number of of years and i am now training with JKA and i have now noticed that there are a number of small differences in the kata. The ones i am dealing with at the moment are in Bassai Daisuch as - once upon a time move seven the sukui uke (scooping block) was more of a duck and block than it is now.

I was just wondering why changes are made, and to what purpose?

Changes are made to kata for a wide variety of reasons. Here are some I can think of off the top of my head:

- To make a movement "fit" the way they think the style should work

- To make a movement "fit" the way they think the style should look

- To make a movement more interesting-looking for competition

- To make a movement easier to do in their old age or with their injuries

- To make a movement easier to teach to large groups

- To make a movement safer to practice

- Because they forgot how it was supposed to be done

- Because people in the organization disagree about how it was supposed to be done and had to compromise

Solid post!!

Nonetheless, Kanazawa Sensei DID make changes to JKA kata's, as it was his right, whatever they might be, imho, to separate himself from JKA across the board. SKIF, imho, can't be true to itself and its student body if SKIF/Kanazawa Sensei holds onto the kata's of the JKA.

Whatever brand of Shotokan you are, embrace those kata's as they're being taught to you currently, inasmuch, don't forget what kata's you've been taught by the JKA curriculum because they're just another interpretation and no less or greater than what SKIF is teaching.

Hang in there, rock and roll, and TRAIN like you never have.

[brickshooter]

Even within organizations, long time practitioners will make slight changes to kata to personalize them. Often it's to fit a physical advantage or cure a physical disadvantage. Chief instructors generally recognize the intent and will rarely correct deviations unless you are way off.

[blacknebula]

I train with two different Senseis, one of whom started out as a student of the other some decades ago. And even they teach the same kata slightly differently!

[kensei]

Shu Ha Ri!

Study the Kata and learn it....

Make it part of you and know it inside and out....

Make changes as it suits you once you know the Kata....

Kata should be a living and breathing thing, same with the Kumite styles, we may all have two arms and two legs but we have different movement patterns and once you are used to the basics you now can start integrating your own movment paterns...and as was suggested...as long as you are not so far off..You are doing it right.

Also, interpretation (bunkai) can mean a world of difference to the out come and practice of a kata down the road.

[sensei8]

Shu Ha Ri!

Study the Kata and learn it....

Make it part of you and know it inside and out....

Make changes as it suits you once you know the Kata....

Kata should be a living and breathing thing, same with the Kumite styles, we may all have two arms and two legs but we have different movement patterns and once you are used to the basics you now can start integrating your own movment paterns...and as was suggested...as long as you are not so far off..You are doing it right.

Also, interpretation (bunkai) can mean a world of difference to the out come and practice of a kata down the road.

Solid post!!

[JasonW]

Seems like there are subtle differences with almost everyone. I've noticed it too with people trained by different people in the same style. Perception is reality. Learn what is useful to you and learn all you can

[Harkon72]

I performed Pinan Sandan twice last night in my grading. The first time I was nervous and stressed. After some instruction from my Sensei, the second Pinan Sandan was more relaxed, faster and had more power and focus. My Kata are different each time I do them. The rhythm and focus changes each time. I suppose it's like a Jazz Pianist playing a piece of music, everyone knows the tune but the feel of it can be different. It can come from the Bunkai, but for me it's the state of mind.