Did I overreact?

[DoctorQui]

I apologise in advance for the long post!

We had a guy come to training on last week who, many years ago, was a regular and is a Godan. Anyway, the club has moved on since he was there (way before my time) and my Sensei (who is 8th Dan) runs things perfectly and in accordance with his membership eg children and middle aged men and women!

Anyway, Friday night, Sensei was not able to attend and left it to his usual second in command, a Yondan. Anyway, when this guy turned up (who had been sending his son to class for some time and had sat at the side lines and watched) he decided, as senior grade, to take control of the class. The Yondan allowed him to do this as we are all taught to respect senior grades.

The Godan decided he would take the Black and Brown belts and told the other senior grades to split the junior grades up and train them. He then proceeded to train us with some very complicated combinations without a build up ie starting with two moves, then four then six before pulling them together. Instead, he showed us all a combinations in their entirety once and then got really angry when people made mistakes shouting things like, 'you're supposed to be black and brown belts' 'I've watched most of you train and frankly it surprises me that you have black or brown belts', that sort of thing. Anyway, one of the Sandans tried to respectfully explain how we normally train, and he basically said, well this is how I do and then gave the Sandan 20 press/push ups for his trouble. Actually, he was making all of us do press ups at the slightest infraction anyone did...it was like a huge ego trip for him!

We then started line sparring and he was telling us to do techniques that I think were really dangerous, telling us to actually got to hit the person we are sparring in the head because 'thats what it would be like in a tournament...none of this tippy tappy nonsense'! (none of us are in it for tournaments, we're all mid 40s plus) and if the recipient got hit then it would teach them to be quicker!

Anyway, when it came to my turn I made a mistake and instead of stepping to the side and punching, I stepped to the side blocked and punched to the upper chest (because I think going for the head in a training situation can be quite dangerous if you don't have excellent control...I'm not confident enough with mine for that, body yes, head no!) Anyway, he then says, because I made the error, 'pathetic, you call yourself a 1st Kyu? If you make another mistake I'll send you over to train with the kids' So I tried again and again instinctively blocked so he said 'right, thats it, go over and train with the kids' at which point I bowed, and said respectfully I will not do that, took my belt off and left the dojo! I was then followed by a few of the other black and browns who had also had enough of him.

I can't stress how angry I was at this man, he had no idea of anyones medical history and was doing things that could have put people out of action. One colleague (a nidan) had not long come back after two years of knee operations due to karate, and two others are pensioners (one with arthritis), I myself have hip problems. He swept my colleagues dodgy leg, and did the same thing to the pensioners.

Sorry its so long!!

I have been doing Karate on and off for years and I have never done anything like this before. Met loads of 'bullies' in the Dojo but this really took the biscuit!

[Wastelander]

To be honest, I suspect that this WAS a power-trip for that Godan. There has been nothing keeping him out of the dojo or off the mat--the only difference between the situation you describe and your normal classes where he sits out is the absence of your head instructor. This tells me that the head instructor may be the reason that the Godan in question doesn't train or teach at the dojo anymore. My guess is that he resents the instructor for taking the dojo in a different direction, and he saw his absence as an opportunity to make his disapproval known and "prove his superiority" to you all, so to speak, by showing you how things used to be, although he probably exaggerated the severity, intensity and difficulty of it to boost his ego. I would talk to your head instructor about the incident immediately, because I suspect that the Godan may try to tell the head instructor about how "disrespectful," "rude" and "ungrateful" you are, and you will want to explain your side.

[MasterPain]

No way anyone should tolerate being talked down to like that. It's not the military.

[kensei]

Hi,

I have read your whole post and I am shocked you all stayed that long. First off unless you are invited to take the class and teach it is a big breach of ettiquite to do so! The Godan started off right away breaching the respect of others by jumping in and starting to teach with out the instructors permission.

If it were My dojo I would ban the guy and tell him if he were to train in my club again...he would be expected to wear a white belt to show his level of understanding of Karate! His total disregard for others health and feelings shows a immaturity of charactor. As an instructor, guest or otherwise, we are here to motivate and to assist, not to rip someone appart and leave them feeling like walking out.

The FIRST thing I would do is report the night to your instructor as they have a right to know what was going on. The gent should NOT be allowed to teach anyone! If the instructor is fine with this teaching method he can expect to lose lots of students!

I had a similar experience 15-20 years ago as a flashy new Shodan walking into a class taught by a fairly famous Canadian Karate guy, who basically taught like he hated everyone and everythign about Karate! I did not leave but my instructor was watching and after class he said to all of us that he would never have the other guy back and that the style of teaching that this person showed was a perfect example of...what not to do when teaching.

I am on your side here, this is not Karate! That guy has issues!!!

[sensei8]

The Godan assumed a position that he didn't possess...NOT ON MY FLOOR!!

Respect begets respect but just as soon as dojo etiquette was violated by the Godan, that's when the Yondan should've ended class...had the Sandan run class until the Yondan's return...then the Yondan should have asked the Godan into the office in order to either explain things to him, and/or ask him to leave immediately, and his actions would be brought to the Hachidan. When this Godan began to berate students OR when teaching leads to injuring students, that's when it's time for the Godan to GO!! Godan refuses to stop/leave/etc, that's when the Yondan makes a call to the Hachidan, and if the Hachidan can't be reached, then a call to the police might be warranted.

Wastelander, MasterPain, and kensei: all solid posts across the board!!

Hopefully, you've already spoken to the Hachidan about the night in question so that he can make sure that this type of breach of etiquette never happens again. If so, what did the Hachidan have to say about it?

Edited January 16, 2013 by sensei8

[Dobbersky]

Wow, IF I was attending someone else's class and I was senior to the person entrusted with the task I would not jump in like that.

I once had someone cover my class and I would do it again especially after what my students told me. I have senior grades and they know what is expected so I leave it to them if I need to.

Definately speak to your Sensei. I'm suprised he didn' allow the Yondan the exclusivity of teaching the class as a whole

If he's on the Godan's side, I'm happy to poach you all, OSU!!!

[DWx]

It does sound like a power trip however why did the yondan step over in the first place? If he/she has been left in charge by your head instructor then they are in charge no matter who turns up. I know you have to respect the hierarchy however if this guy hasn't been training for many years as far as I am concerned he is an inactive godan and should not come in expecting to teach the class. Besides which, how would you explain that to a child's parents or an insurance company if someone got hurt as a result of what he was teaching

[tallgeese]

Certainly no overreaction on your part. All the issues are on the other guys side. Holy cow, I agree, the fact he took over at all while not actively training at the facility you attend is problematic, especially without the consent of your instructor.

That behavior defiantly needs brought to the attention of your head instructor. It sounds like he's in martial arts for a different reason than is the focus of your club. Neither facet is wrong in and of itself. What his wrong is he taking the opportunity (total breach of etiquette, as has been said) to disagree publicly.

On the flip side of the issue, it sounds like you handled the situation as well as it could be handled. The fact you were able to control your, very appropriate, anger is impressive give what he did. Kudos for that.

Keep us posted on what the fall out is over the matter.

[DoctorQui]

Guys, I appreciate your support

There are lots of politics that go way back to the 80s that, frankly, would take all day to type. This guy and my Sensei go way back (not particularly pleasant history), and this guy used to teach the Yondan...I think he was put in an awkward position, a position that the Godan should not have put him in!

I have since my post, spoken to my club mates and it appears that the Yondan and other senior Dans have apprised my Sensei! Apparently the Godan had been coming on and off for a few weeks on the sessions I wasn't at! He has been passively undermining my Sensei in the changing room apparently!

Its infuriating!

[sensei8]

Imho, it's time for the Godan to be banned from the dojo!!