De-fetishizing the black belt

[MasterPain]

In Bujin, black belt is an instructor's rank. You don't get it until you have the knowledge to teach the core system as well as trying to help expand it. Also included is an hour long Happy Fun Time Beat Em Up, lots of randori, questions on legal and ethical use of force, ect. In 2 decades, there are 10 of us. So while I do agree that it is just the beginning for a lifer, the belt should mean something or it has no reason to exist. Symbols are only as good as what they represent. My favorite latin phrase is res ipsa loquitur. If the res can't loquitor, the res ipsa a lot of balogna.

If someone wants shorter term goals, they should have something like "land a 2 hit combo on a senior student." followed by "land a combo on sensei" Or maybe "learn requirements for the next belt and spend a few months internalizing them."

[sensei8]

["sensei8"]If they aren't happy because I'm not giving them a black belt just so they don't quit; please, quit and quit now because I don't have the time, nor the inclination, to grant their selfish whims, especially when rank is concerned and involved.

You have more faith in the average person than I do. I feel like the desire to practice for something other than the reward of a belt has to be cultivated. Isn't that perhaps why it only takes X amount of time to go from 6th kyu to 5th kyu, but 5X time to go from Shodan to Nidan?

Every rank should be cultivated within each student, not just the Dan ranks, therefore, the responsibility to ensure that every rank is properly cultivated must rest upon said instructor. I don't give a pin-heads concern about how long a student of mine has been in said rank. Why? My standards are very high, no matter rank, because the apple doesn't fall far from the tree; hence, my Dai-Soke's standards are also my own, as they were for him regarding Soke, and in that, my students know from day one that I will not barter rank, therefore, rank will come to them once they've earned it, and no sooner.

I want my students to want each and every belt, and not just the black belt the black belt requires maturity across the board.

De-fetishizing the black belt isn't my goal, but de-fetishizing the belt system all together itself, well, that's my goal and I pray that it's admirable for me to do so.

I wholly agree with your final sentiment. That said, it seems to me to directly contradict the sentence I've quoted above it. Could you elaborate?

Exactly which sentence are you referring to? Possibly you can highlight the sentence you're referring to with bold letters, so that way, I'm not elaborating the wrong sentence.

[MasterPain]

Two more hypotheticals to reframe the discussion:

What if there were a system where it took ten years to get a black belt, but that was because there were something like twenty kyu (white, white with yellow, white with orange, yellow, yellow with orange, etc.)? Let's leave aside that anyone who came up with such a system would make a fortune in testing fees...

What if, instead of a set belt order for a style or organization, you let people pick their own order? For example, mine would probably end with a nice fuscia (second kyu)/teal (first kyu)/forest green (dan) sequence.

Do either of these help rethink my questions?

I think you are derailing your own thread. Perhaps it would be best to stick with the original thought here, and start another topic, lest we descend into chaos. Which is the type of thing you a describing here anyway.

[bushido_man96]

Double-edged sword here. We can argue the meaning of the black belt along with how it should be interpreted as far as knowledge base goes for a long time.

I think the whole "black belt is just the beginning" thing has to do with trying to keep people from thinking the black belt is the end goal. Then, what's left? So, kind of like the "no first strike in Karate" maxim, the "black belt is the beginning" maxim is often misinterpreted. I think the general idea is, "you shouldn't stop your training once you reach black belt."

So, along with those lines, I think it is important to gauge skill and knowledge along with rank, so someone is representing their style and rank accordingly. Should see the differences in classes between beginner, intermediate, and advanced students. If there were 20 people in a class, doing basics and forms, but lined up in a random order, you should be able to get an idea of who is higher ranked and who is lower ranked by seeing how they move, and by the attitude they exude.

[Harkon72]

You put it in a Nutshell BM, solid post!

[bushido_man96]

You put it in a Nutshell BM, solid post!

Thanks, Harkon!

[ShoriKid]

In Bujin, black belt is an instructor's rank. You don't get it until you have the knowledge to teach the core system as well as trying to help expand it. Also included is an hour long Happy Fun Time Beat Em Up, lots of randori, questions on legal and ethical use of force, ect. In 2 decades, there are 10 of us. So while I do agree that it is just the beginning for a lifer, the belt should mean something or it has no reason to exist. Symbols are only as good as what they represent. My favorite latin phrase is res ipsa loquitur. If the res can't loquitor, the res ipsa a lot of balogna.

If someone wants shorter term goals, they should have something like "land a 2 hit combo on a senior student." followed by "land a combo on sensei" Or maybe "learn requirements for the next belt and spend a few months internalizing them."

See, I hear that the "Black belt is just the beginning" from so many martial artists and I shake my head. Yes, we all know that training can be a life time pursuit and you'll never stop improving if you keep training. However, a black belt should actually mean something. It should contain the bulk of the syllabus, good ability execute the material, maturity of the practitioner etc. There are tons of folks I see arguing for the divorce of skill and expectation from the black belt. Why? Does it absolve the instructor from pushing the students to achieve high levels of skill. Does it cost the school students and income because it takes so long to reach black belt? Does it cost people in self esteem because they can't promote quickly enough? I've been conflicted on this one for a long time. I've been an advocate of a black belt meaning something, a mark of skill and ability. Not something you just get for hanging around and being marked a slightly experienced beginner.

Is it wrong that I expect a black belt to be a skilled martial artist who can convey a system?

[MasterPain]

Like I said, if it doesn't mean something, why have it? Sure we can give a black belt away to make someone feel good. And we may as well let the linebackers wear tutus and try to hug the quarterback instead of tackle him.

[ShoriKid]

Like I said, if it doesn't mean something, why have it? Sure we can give a black belt away to make someone feel good. And we may as well let the linebackers wear tutus and try to hug the quarterback instead of tackle him.

After the season we just went through in college ball? Doesn't sound to odd.

I think a black belt should have meaning. It should be difficult to obtain. It should be a mark of skill and ability. We're tiny. A handful of guys training and trying to improve. However, the students at our dojo will have a black belt that means something when and if they earn it. To me they aren't beginners and I sure don't want others making the assumption they are.

[sensei8]

Double-edged sword here. We can argue the meaning of the black belt along with how it should be interpreted as far as knowledge base goes for a long time.

I think the whole "black belt is just the beginning" thing has to do with trying to keep people from thinking the black belt is the end goal. Then, what's left? So, kind of like the "no first strike in Karate" maxim, the "black belt is the beginning" maxim is often misinterpreted. I think the general idea is, "you shouldn't stop your training once you reach black belt."

So, along with those lines, I think it is important to gauge skill and knowledge along with rank, so someone is representing their style and rank accordingly. Should see the differences in classes between beginner, intermediate, and advanced students. If there were 20 people in a class, doing basics and forms, but lined up in a random order, you should be able to get an idea of who is higher ranked and who is lower ranked by seeing how they move, and by the attitude they exude.

Yes...a very solid post!!