lit-arate Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 By coincidence, I'm going to begin training in Taekwondo tomorrow, and begin volunteer head-instructing American Kenpo for a local social services organization. This juxtaposition had me thinking about belt ranks: I've often heard TKD accused of handing out belts, and I was thinking about how slowed down promotion might be for my students since we'll only practice once a week. And the conclusion that I've over-philosophized to is that objections to rapid promotion stem from a problematic fetishization of the black belt.Here's my line of reasoning. People object to black belts obtained within three years, or to children having black belts. Why? Because a black belt is something to be earned after forty years of training, following a grueling two-week test that culminates with the practitioner defeating an enraged bull elephant using nothing but ki (I may exaggerate this sentiment a bit).And yet, some people (often the same people) love to announce that "a black belt is only the beginning." Both my Aikido and American Kenpo Sensei have remarked that a black belt means you're beginning your training--not that you're a master. So, that being the case: why not give people their black belts in three years if--and this is the fundamental sentiment--if it keeps them training in martial arts. I assume that most of us for whom martial arts means a lifestyle, and most of us who instruct, desire nothing more than for our students to love MA as much as we do, and to continue with it for their whole lives. But that kind of love takes a while to develop--so in the meantime, why not keep people coming by making them feel like they're accomplishing something? You want ten different colors of belts? Sure, if it means that you'll train for three years to get all of them. You want a black belt in five years? Whatever, as long as you keep training for five, ten, fifteen, twenty years afterward.My thesis is that any resistance to these sentiments comes from an unnecessary and paradoxical idolization of the black belt. If it really means "beginning," then why panic when a school has a bunch of beginners?A metaphoric example. If all goes according to plan, in two more years, at the age of twenty-six, I'll complete my Ph.D. in literature from a Tier 1 American Research University. No reasonable person is going to object to me having a Ph.D.; I will have taken all the exams, written all the articles, completed a dissertation. But no reasonable person is going to think that I've reached the pinnacle of my field, or even the end of my scholarly journey; a Ph.D. really is just the beginning, at least if I want to have a career.A key difference: a Ph.D. is pretty much standardized. Even if some schools aren't as allegedly prestigious, the people who went there still did basically the same amount of work; regulations see to that. But the critical notion we can learn from that difference: those people who haven't put in the same amount of work will lose out in the job and publishing market. Proficiency in the field yields results; the title is only a title (and the belt is only a belt).The final key difference, and the crux of my over-long argument: very, very, very few people put in the work to get a Ph.D. and then sign out from the field; lots of people get a black belt and then never train again. So, what we responsible martial arts instructors need to do is de-fetishize the black belt. If you make people feel like they've culminated some sort of lifetime achievement because they made shodan, they're going to quit. Nobody starts a martial art saying, "I just want to get my green belt."TLDR: That thirteen year-old kid's black belt isn't special, because a black belt is just the beginning. Your black belt isn't special, for the same reason. So don't tell people it is, and maybe they'll stop wanting it in three years. Until then, just give it to them so they'll keep practicing.(You know you're a Ph.D. student when your "TLDR" is a paragraph)Thank you for your patience and for indulging my rambling. You are bound to become a buddha if you practice.If water drips long enough, even rocks wear through.It is not true thick skulls cannot be pierced;people just imagine their minds are hard.~ Shih-wu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 First of all, Excellent post. But, if I may be permitted to play devils advocate for a moment, since there is no standard for a black belt except what each instructor sets for his school or organization, then perhaps one of the biggest gripes with people receiving a black belt to soon is the feeling that they are not being held to as high a standard. If, for example, 2 schools tought the same style but the standard, in terms of training time/knowledge etc. for green belt in one is the same as the standard for Shodan in the other then when they meet and interact, by the "rules of etiquette" the green belts opinion is given less wieght even though he may know as much or more. Think first, act second, and stop getting the two confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sensei8 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 No...your OP wasn't too long and I did read the entire post. You make a valid argument, and an interesting one indeed. People want their black belt in three years because they've no patience and in that, they don't want to devote any tenure in earning said black belt.Just give them a black belt so that they'll keep training!?! No! I'd rather they find something else to do than shadow the doors of my dojo. Belts are the smallest thing; infinitesimal compared to acquiring knowledge/experience. I'll give them anything they might desire just as long as they EARN it. If they aren't happy because I'm not giving them a black belt just so they don't quit; please, quit and quit now because I don't have the time, nor the inclination, to grant their selfish whims, especially when rank is concerned and involved.Imagine if your didn't earn your Ph.D. and some school just gave it to you so that you'll just continue in your studies for the sake of retention. How'd you feel about the value of your Ph.D.? If you're 26 and you've earned a Ph.D., then more power to you and I wouldn't site you for it because you've earned it across the board. I don't think that a Ph.D. at 26 years of age is the same thing as a child earning a black belt as a child under the age of 13, even though in Shindokan, a child under 18 years of age might earn a JBB, and not a full fledged black belt, no, that's for adults.Telling students that the black belt IS just the beginning isn't wrong, imho, because it is just that, and nothing more, as one might perceive, and in that, the black belt is being in the content of learning/training. Therefore, there's an idea shared by many students, and that is that they think that earning their black belt in said given MA IS the after so many years is the end/goal.The most important belt is NOT the black belt. No! It's the white belt because without it, there is NO other attainable belt.My black belt is special, and so are the belts that came before it. I want my students to want each and every belt, and not just the black belt because the white belt IS the beginning of ones MA journey, and in that, the black belt is the beginning of advanced training, just as the white belt was the beginning of the basics. What are the Dan ranks then? Rungs in a ladder, and they must be achieved one rung at a time as one matures in the MA across the board.I don't object to people earning a black belt in less than 3 years; it's happened from time to time; by some quite noted MAists...Mike Stone and Joe Lewis, to name just a few. I don't object to a child earning a black belt just as long as the child isn't still in pre-school; 13 years old is fine with me, but only as a JBB. I'm of the opinion that a black belt should be earned by an adult because the black belt requires maturity across the board. This is what I was taught by my Soke and Dai-Soke and I will respect their wishes until I die.De-fetishizing the black belt isn't my goal, but de-fetishizing the belt system all together itself, well, that's my goal and I pray that it's admirable for me to do so. **Proof is on the floor!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobbersky Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 First of all, Excellent post. But, if I may be permitted to play devils advocate for a moment, since there is no standard for a black belt except what each instructor sets for his school or organization, then perhaps one of the biggest gripes with people receiving a black belt to soon is the feeling that they are not being held to as high a standard. If, for example, 2 schools tought the same style but the standard, in terms of training time/knowledge etc. for green belt in one is the same as the standard for Shodan in the other then when they meet and interact, by the "rules of etiquette" the green belts opinion is given less wieght even though he may know as much or more.Agreed, its about standards.Also I'm not the owner of a PhD, what's TLDR, I work for a multinational company dealing with FTSE 100, companies and I've not heard this jargon, LOL, I must be getting old. Hahaha "Challenge is a Dragon with a Gift in its mouth....Tame the Dragon and the Gift is Yours....." Noela Evans (author) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sensei8 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 First of all, Excellent post. But, if I may be permitted to play devils advocate for a moment, since there is no standard for a black belt except what each instructor sets for his school or organization, then perhaps one of the biggest gripes with people receiving a black belt to soon is the feeling that they are not being held to as high a standard. If, for example, 2 schools tought the same style but the standard, in terms of training time/knowledge etc. for green belt in one is the same as the standard for Shodan in the other then when they meet and interact, by the "rules of etiquette" the green belts opinion is given less wieght even though he may know as much or more.Solid post!! **Proof is on the floor!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sensei8 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 First of all, Excellent post. But, if I may be permitted to play devils advocate for a moment, since there is no standard for a black belt except what each instructor sets for his school or organization, then perhaps one of the biggest gripes with people receiving a black belt to soon is the feeling that they are not being held to as high a standard. If, for example, 2 schools tought the same style but the standard, in terms of training time/knowledge etc. for green belt in one is the same as the standard for Shodan in the other then when they meet and interact, by the "rules of etiquette" the green belts opinion is given less wieght even though he may know as much or more.Agreed, its about standards.Also I'm not the owner of a PhD, what's TLDR, I work for a multinational company dealing with FTSE 100, companies and I've not heard this jargon, LOL, I must be getting old. HahahaI took it to mean...Too long; didn't read. I could be wrong, but that's what I proposed it to mean. **Proof is on the floor!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanoner Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 In regards to the "you've just started to learn" aproach to shodan, I think this is one of the most correct sayings. I still don't feel that I've "earned" my shodan (november 2012), but I have tested in a JKA grading, and proven to be at the required level. I feel that i have "earned" it in the case of the effort and years I put in (6 years). But in regards to fluidness, knowledge and correct technique (all the small odds and bits that make a correct technique) I still have a looong way to go. It's been deemed good enough, but it's far from perfect.This gives me a boost, that I have achived shodan, but still have lots of tings to learn. It's great!Black belt after 3 years... Naah, don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lit-arate Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 First of all, Excellent post. But, if I may be permitted to play devils advocate for a moment, since there is no standard for a black belt except what each instructor sets for his school or organization, then perhaps one of the biggest gripes with people receiving a black belt to soon is the feeling that they are not being held to as high a standard. If, for example, 2 schools tought the same style but the standard, in terms of training time/knowledge etc. for green belt in one is the same as the standard for Shodan in the other then when they meet and interact, by the "rules of etiquette" the green belts opinion is given less wieght even though he may know as much or more.. This is quite true. I hadn't considered internal consistency as a factor. I don't yet have a rebuttal, but I'll see if I can come up with one for the sake of argument. The other philosophical question your post raises is: if one plays devil's advocate against a post that is originally meant to be a devil's advocate, does that make you heaven's advocate or do you work for a third party?If they aren't happy because I'm not giving them a black belt just so they don't quit; please, quit and quit now because I don't have the time, nor the inclination, to grant their selfish whims, especially when rank is concerned and involved.You have more faith in the average person than I do. I feel like the desire to practice for something other than the reward of a belt has to be cultivated. Isn't that perhaps why it only takes X amount of time to go from 6th kyu to 5th kyu, but 5X time to go from Shodan to Nidan?Imagine if your didn't earn your Ph.D. and some school just gave it to you so that you'll just continue in your studies for the sake of retention. How'd you feel about the value of your Ph.D.?Valid point. I think this is another place that the metaphor breaks down, though. Academia is largely populated by awful people who would weed out easy-Ph.D.s so fast their heads would spin; MA tends to have neither the forum in which to do that (there isn't a place where you can basically lose your black belt), nor people interested in doing that. But your point remains valid.I want my students to want each and every belt, and not just the black belt the black belt requires maturity across the board. De-fetishizing the black belt isn't my goal, but de-fetishizing the belt system all together itself, well, that's my goal and I pray that it's admirable for me to do so.I wholly agree with your final sentiment. That said, it seems to me to directly contradict the sentence I've quoted above it. Could you elaborate?I took it to mean... Too long; didn't read. Yes. I'm sorry, I forgot that karateforums posters tend to be real adults, and not internet-addled children.In regards to the "you've just started to learn" aproach to shodan, I think this is one of the most correct sayings. I still don't feel that I've "earned" my shodan But in regards to fluidness, knowledge and correct technique (all the small odds and bits that make a correct technique) I still have a looong way to go.This gives me a boost, that I have achived shodan, but still have lots of tings to learn. It's great!Black belt after 3 years... Naah, don't think so.I believe the proper response to this is: Q.E.D. With utmost respect, this entire post seems to me to demonstrate the exact paradoxical thinking that I originally sought to investigate. Black belt is, according to you, just the beginning, something you don't earn, a point from which to depart, something that gives you a mental boost ... but not something that should just be handed out. What makes six years arbitrarily a better point to just begin, to receive a mental boost?Thank you all for your contribution to the discussion. You are bound to become a buddha if you practice.If water drips long enough, even rocks wear through.It is not true thick skulls cannot be pierced;people just imagine their minds are hard.~ Shih-wu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lit-arate Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 Two more hypotheticals to reframe the discussion:What if there were a system where it took ten years to get a black belt, but that was because there were something like twenty kyu (white, white with yellow, white with orange, yellow, yellow with orange, etc.)? Let's leave aside that anyone who came up with such a system would make a fortune in testing fees...What if, instead of a set belt order for a style or organization, you let people pick their own order? For example, mine would probably end with a nice fuscia (second kyu)/teal (first kyu)/forest green (dan) sequence.Do either of these help rethink my questions? You are bound to become a buddha if you practice.If water drips long enough, even rocks wear through.It is not true thick skulls cannot be pierced;people just imagine their minds are hard.~ Shih-wu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wastelander Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 As I recall, when Kano Jigoro originally instituted it the black belt was intended to indicate when a student was knowledgeable enough and skilled enough for new students to learn from them. I believe that this would have meant those students knew how to perform all of the kata, as well as all of the throwing, pinning, locking and choking techniques of judo well enough to teach to beginners, and could demonstrate them against a resisting opponent. The idea of black belt being "the beginning" of your training was technically still true, because just knowing how to perform all of the techniques in judo didn't mean you had mastered it, but it did mean that you could explore and personalize it for the rest of your life because you had all of the fundamentals.If we carry this concept over into other arts, then the black belt should be given when a student knows how to perform all of the kata and techniques of the art well enough to teach them to beginners and demonstrate them against a resisting opponent. How long this takes depends entirely upon the size and complexity of the curriculum, the skill/talent/dedication of the student and the skill/talent/dedication of the teacher. I do think that the black belt has been over-emphasized over time, but I actually think that was done for the very reason that you are suggesting we de-emphasize it, OP--to keep people training. Training is hard work and requires a lot of dedication, so the black belt was over-emphasized as a hard-to-reach goal that would keep people coming to the dojo to try and achieve that coveted piece of fabric in the hopes that by the time they reached it they would have developed a love for the art that would keep them coming after that.What you seem to be proposing is that we give students a black belt more easily to try to accomplish, essentially, the same thing, but I think that what we have discovered by the original over-emphasis of the black belt to try to keep people training, and the subsequent prevalence of post-shodan dropouts, is that you cannot use the belt system to build your students' love for the art. They will either love it or they won't, and they will only keep training if it fulfills their personal desires and meets their goals. An instructor can try to meet the student's needs, but if the development of the art, itself, isn't the student's goal then the instructor can only do so much. Kishimoto-Di | 2014-Present | Sensei: Ulf KarlssonShorin-Ryu/Shinkoten Karate | 2010-Present: Yondan, Renshi | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)Shuri-Ryu | 2006-2010: Sankyu | Sensei: Joey Johnston, Joe Walker (RIP)Judo | 2007-2010: Gokyu | Sensei: Joe Walker (RIP), Ramon Rivera (RIP), Adrian RiveraIllinois Practical Karate | International Neoclassical Karate Kobudo Society Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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