Arnis interview by Martial Art Research Center

[Corey Minatani]

(First set of questioning)

 

Q. Can you tell us a bit more about Arnis ? (origin, philosophy, goal...)

 

A. First of all Mr. Wong, I will limit my response to “Modern Arnis” with the lineage of Remy Presas to Datu Kelly Worden of Natural Spirit Int’l Conceptual Base. According to Professor Presas, there are over 7,000 styles of Arnis (Presas, 1983); we will only concentrate on “Modern Arnis” as I learned it from the Professor in seminars and Datu Kelly Worden.

 

One could say that fighting with sticks, knife, or empty hands has been a predominant feature of the Filipino culture throughout its history (Presas, 1974). The history, needless to say, is long and developed dialogue best described in Filipino Martial Culture by Mark Wiley.

 

To utilize this ancient form of combat of the primitive Negritos in modern day scenarios with or without a stick or a knife is the underlying goal of Modern Arnis (Presas Video, 1988 and Presas, 1974). One could argue, that the movements that one does with the stick or blade uses (or translates) in empty hand applications. In this manner, instead of learning one system for knife, one system for sticks, and another for empty hands, one can synthesize the training of learning one system and being able to apply it in three. In 1988, Professor Presas promoted Mr. Kelly Worden to the level of “Datu,” Master of Modern Arnis, for his contribution to Modern Arnis and the formulation of his Sibat (Filipino long pole or staff) system (Worden Video, 1993). The Sibat lines splices and cross-references into Professor Remy Presas’ Modern Arnis. To this date, through the Natural Spirit Int’l curriculum (Datu Worden’s organization), the Modern Arnis synthesis includes empty hand, stick, knife, and staff lines into one complete system of modern day combat.

 

Modern Arnis supplements one’s primary system of fighting and blends rather than conflicts with that primary style. Professor Presas explains:

 

“Arnis makes many martial artists discover new things about their own style. They recognize the beauty of arnis because it blends naturally the best movements from many arts. Most of my students continue to study their own styles—they just use arnis to supplement their understanding (Presas, 1983).”

 

In addition, the Modern Arnis system must be adapted to the individual’s particular attributes and body motions; in this sense, it starts to sound a lot like Jeet Kune Do and Bruce Lee’s research into the arts. “This is known simply as using ‘the flow.’ The flow is Presas’ universal term for defining the comfortable place where the movements of arnis and the individual human body meet for maximum effectiveness; body and weapon blend to achieve the most natural fighting style based on an individual’s needs and attributes. (Presas, 1983)”

 

To summarize, Modern Arnis is used to simply the combative process and make it more applicable to modern day practitioners, hence the name, Modern Arnis. Modern

 

Arnis is a synthesis of many forms of arnis native to the Philipine Islands created by the late Professor Remy Amador Presas. Datu Kelly Worden is important because he formulated the long pole lines into Modern Arnis tactics, but outsiders from Datu Worden’s organization, Natural Spirit Int’l, are missing these Sibat long pole lines.

 

Q. What would you say is the strongest advantage Arnis has over other martial arts?

 

A. Let me state for the record Mr. Wong, that styles are not superior in any way to another in the general context. The person who is utilizing the art is one who may or may not be superior, that is a different context. If we are to expand into the latter context then, I shall suggest that a person trained in weapons has a significant advantage over someone without a weapon. Needless to say, this is a no brainer! I have rarely seen anyone specifically trained, even moderately, in blade methodology beaten by a system of unarmed combat. This is not to say that it could never happen, just rare. When the blade is flashed and apparent, I don’t see anyone wanting to play karate lines or kickboxing lines. Brazillian Jujitsu players do not want the guard when I stick the blade into their ribcage. Sticks, whether it be solo or doble baston, isn’t much less deadly. The human skull breaks at 8-10 PSI and the sticks moving in sinawali (weaving) or abonico (fanning) lines could easily surpass that kind of pressure to kill. In addition, Filipino weaponry in general attacks the attacks of the opponent: this idea is called “defanging the snake.” For example, if someone where to punch the arnisador (arnis player), the arnisador would simply strike or attack that punch with the stick or knife. Grapplers shooting in for a single or double-leg takedown better be quick, or the skull will explode when the arnisador evades and swings in a downward arc. It is an interesting observation, that people who would never compete empty hand against a pistol or firearm might actually consider defending against a stick or knife which is easier to conceal and harder to predict! Go ahead and try I say, people who train hard core in arnis, modern or otherwise, bring to the table a side of reality that grappling tourneys and karate sparring cannot deal with. This is the reason why many “death matches” were done in the past in the Philipines; one cannot test one’s real skills without serious maiming or killing one’s opponent.

 

This is not to say that karate and grappling do not have their good points, they have lots of them! The “modern day warrior” mentality suggests that one do train in karate and grappling, but also blade arts and stick arts, and up to and including firearms. Carrying a pistol, 3 blades (pocket folders), a fist load and some mace is common gear for rough areas in certain neighborhoods. Phrases like “wood meets bone” and “steel seeks flesh” are common mantras for the serious practitioner. Defending your life or your loved ones in some respects is the key reason one enters the arts, not for trophies and titles or belts to hold up your pants! So, to reiterate, another advantage might be the psychology of the arnisador versus other sport oriented systems.

 

Q. Are there any forms or katas in Arnis?

 

A. For the organization of Remy Presas, the IMAF, there are (to my knowledge) four single stick forms called anyos. In addition, for the arnisador, there are five empty hand anyos that the Modern Arnis practitioner must perform. From the Datu Worden lineage, one must perform 5 Sibat (staff or long pole) forms, the third being a two-person set.

 

It has been said that the Modern Arnis stick anyos are fairly basic, but the number of applications or bunkai for these seemingly simple forms is quite vast. The empty hand anyos look curiously similar to karate lines with many trapping and throwing lines (which may be grouped as Dumog or Filipino influenced Kuntao).

 

Again, what you learn with the empty hand forms can be utilized with the stick, staff, or knife. Conversely, the stick forms have many staff, knife, and empty hand translations of them.

 

(Bibliography includes Modern Arnis: Philippine martial art of "stickfighting", 1974, Modern Arnis, 1983 both by Professor Remy Presas, Modern Arnis video #3, 1988, and Sibat "Connecting the Systems" series introductory tape, 1993)

 

This is submitted by Corey Minatani

[LeaF]

cool great interview corey

[Corey Minatani]

(The following is a follow-up line of questioning concerning the start of the thread)

 

Greetings Mr. Minatani,

 

I have taken some time to read and analyse

 

your reply and it looks quite promising. There are

 

just a few points I would like to clarify with you.

 

 

 

"One could argue, that the movements that one does

 

with the stick or blade uses (or translates) in empty

 

hand applications.."

 

1- I'm not sure I understand this fully. Does it mean

 

that if one becomes an expert Arnis practitioner, he

 

would be able to use a knife, sticks are even his bare

 

hands with the same techniques? Wouldn't that be

 

somewhat impossible considering the physical aspect

 

and caracteristics of each weapon? (or does it mean

 

that you change the mouvement a little bit to adapt to

 

each weapon?)

 

THIS IS CORRECT, ONE MAY DO THE EXACT SAME MOVEMENTS,

 

NO CHANGE OF FOOTWORK OR ARMWORK IS NECESSARY, HAO.

 

ONLY THING THAT CHANGES IS FROM THE WRIST TO THE

 

FINGERTIPS, WHICH, IN THE GENERAL SPHERE OF THINGS, IS

 

INSIGNIFICANT. FOR EXAMPLE, IF I AM CORRECT, ONE

 

COULD USE YOUR SHOTOKAN HEIAN SHODAN WITH THE KNIFE,

 

NO PROBLEM, ALTHOUGH THE KIME IS DIFFERENT, THE

 

UNIVERSALS OF MOVEMENT ARE THE SAME. IS NOT A CHUDAN

 

OI-TSUKI THE SAME AS AN ARNIS THRUST? IS NOT THE

 

HAMMERFIST IN MOVEMENT NUMBER 4 OF HEIAN SHODAN THE

 

SAME AS AN ABONICO? CAN YOU NOT IMAGINE LOOKING AT

 

BEST KARATE SERIES OF THE JKA AND WHERE THERE IS A

 

FIST, IMAGINE THE DUDE HOLDING A KNIFE? I WOULD ARGUE

 

THAT YOU DO KNOW MODERN ARNIS ALREADY, YOU JUST GOT TO

 

CHANGE THE LENSES YOU PERCEIVE YOUR ART. AS TO THE

 

CHARACTERISTICS OF THE STICK, STAFF, KNIFE ARE

 

EXTENTIONS OF THE HAND, WHEREAS NUNCHAKU, TONFA, SAI

 

WHICH ARE EXCELLENT WEAPONS, DO NOT IMITATE HUMAN

 

MOTION. IN ADDITION, THESE SUCKERS ARE NOT

 

ENVIRONMENTALLY AROUND WHEN YOU NEED THEM. STICKS,

 

KITCHEN KNIVES, AND STAFF (READ: BROOKSTICKS) ARE ALL

 

AROUND US!

 

"Modern Arnis supplements one's primary system of

 

fighting and blends rather than conflicts with that

 

primary style. "

 

2- When you say primary style, do you mean another

 

martial art or just everyones own fighting instinct?

 

THE MARTIAL ART YOU STUDY, FOR INSTANCE HAO, YOU STUDY

 

SHOTOKAN, ARNIS WOULD COMPLEMENT IT, NOT DISRUPT IT.

 

PROFESSOR PRESAS, INCLUDING TO BE THE FOUNDER OF

 

MODERN ARNIS WAS A 6TH DAN KARATE BLACK BELT AND

 

SHODAN IN JUDO.

 

3- How useful would you say the forms are to actual

 

combats?

 

WELL, WHEN I PUT A KNIFE OR STICK IN MY HANDS, THE

 

ODDS ARE BETTER AND THE WEAPONS BECOME REAL EQUALIZERS

 

AND USEFUL IN THAT REGARD.

 

4- Are there any differences between Arnis, Kali,

 

Escrima and Silat?

 

FROM MY EXPERIENCE, ONLY SLIGHT VARIATIONS FROM ARNIS,

 

KALI, ESKRIMA THAT BEING THE PARTICULAR FORM OR SYSTEM

 

YOU STUDY. SILAT AS I UNDERSTAND IT IS INDONESIAN,

 

AND IS DIFFERENT BUT THE LINES OF BLADES MIGHT BE THE

 

SAME. IF I AM CORRECT, HISTORICALLY SPEAKING,

 

INDONESIANS AND FILIPINOS USUALLY DON'T GET ALONG WITH

 

EACH OTHER VERY WELL, AND THAT TRANSFERS OVER TO

 

MARTIAL ARTS. JUST LIKE KOREANS AND JAPANESE I'M

 

SURE.

 

5- What would be the biggest difference between the

 

"modern arnis " you train in and traditionnal arnis?

 

DON'T REALLY KNOW ENOUGH TO COMMENT ON THAT, AS FOR

 

NOW, I WILL REITERATE, THAT MY RESPONSES BE WITHIN THE

 

CONTEXT OF MODERN ARNIS THROUGH REMY PRESAS AND DATU

 

WORDEN. GOING OUTSIDE THAT REALM WOULD BE BEYOND MY

 

EXPERIENCE. BUT AS I UNDERSTAND IT, TRADITIONAL AND

 

MODERN ARE INCORPORATED INTO MODERN ARNIS. THE ANSWER

 

FOR YOUR SYSTEM, SHOTOKAN, IS EQUALLY DIFFICULT, IF

 

ONE WERE TO SAY, WHAT WAS TRADITIONAL KARATE

 

LIKE....UH...NAHA-TE OR SHURI-TE, WHAT DID FUNAKOSHI

 

SENSEI CHANGE AND WHAT DID HE KEEP AND SO ON...SUCH

 

QUESTIONS ARE REALLY HARD FOR ANYONE WHO DIDN'T

 

DIRECTLY TRAIN WITH THE FOUNDER FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD

 

OF TIME.

 

 

 

 

 

This interview is submitted by Corey Minatani

 

Interviewer is Hao Wong