Stopping at 1st Kyu

[DoctorQui]

Hypothetically (or maybe from experience!?!), if a student came to you and said that they didn't want to progress beyond 1st Kyu (or equiv) and were happy not to take Dan (or equiv) how would you deal with it?

Potentially, many people starting much later will eventually overtake and out rank...but would they. Does a Shodan with 3 years experience really outrank a 1st Kyu of, say, 20 years? Does such a Kyu grade end up learning what they would had they taken Dan?

Thoughts?

[Zaine]

My mother actually did this. A belt is a belt. Usually, for me, a belt represents knowledge gained. If someone wants to stay at 1st Kyu that's fine. What they sacrifice is forms and other knowledge reserved for a Black Belt. In the end though, a 10 year 1st Kyu will be more experienced than a 6 year Shodan and both the Shodan and other students who have less time spent in Martial Arts will be able to learn from this person.

[seikokaistudent]

I kind of do that, I typically spend a year to two years before testing. In the time I have taken to attain green belt(6 years)I could probably already be first or second Dan black belt. My classmates have zoomed ahead of me but I can still beat moist of them in a sparring match. About 3 months ago a black belt from a TKD McDojo got into a fight with me outside of our respective dojos (he sorta jumped/formally challenged me), he was a black belt with 3 years of experience, because of my experience and better physical fitness I was easily able to put him on his buttocks. In short the belt does not matter it is the time, effort, am real life fighting experience that determines someone's "rank". Any school that has a problem with someone not progressing past a certain point, probably only cares about the money.

[DoctorQui]

If someone wants to stay at 1st Kyu that's fine. What they sacrifice is forms and other knowledge reserved for a Black Belt.

Interesting point but is that actually what would happen.

If you say, as I also believe, that a belt is just a belt then staying put at 1st Kyu shouldn't really matter and you should continue to learn rather than simply going to each training session week after week for years and years doing the same technique and kata as you watch your fellow student raise to the dizzy heights that unlock the secrets of Karate with the attainment of BB.

If, however, as you say, someone stays at Kyu and sacrifices forms and knowledge reserved for BBs is a belt really just a belt after all?

[Zaine]

If you say, as I also believe, that a belt is just a belt then staying put at 1st Kyu shouldn't really matter and you should continue to learn rather than simply going to each training session week after week for years and years doing the same technique and kata as you watch your fellow student raise to the dizzy heights that unlock the secrets of Karate with the attainment of BB.

I believe that said student should continue to learn, and a good relationship with your Sensei will probably get you that knowledge that other higher ranks have.

If, however, as you say, someone stays at Kyu and sacrifices forms and knowledge reserved for BBs is a belt really just a belt after all?

I suppose it is and it isn't. We use belts often times as symbol of what level we have achieved and, at least I would hope, how good we are as a Martial Artist. That being said, being a good Martial Artist depends little on what color your belt is. It depends on the drive to learn, practice and the will to get up once knocked down. That being said, the belt does matter, in my mind, because it means that, with your progression in the system, you get to learn new things that were previously barred from you.

[Dobbersky]

I've trained with Many a career Brown belt, who wsa happy to sit at 1st Kyu for as long as they wanted. I even know of one Shotokan Brown belt who even the Shodan's And Nidan's called Sempai.

I concider two grades as the most "dangerous and underated grades in a Dojo, they are White - as they are untested and therir skills haven't been checked etc and Brown as they know everything a Black belt does, they just haven't taken the test

[andym]

I did this, was a 1st Kyu of 8 years before I felt ready for the responsibility of a black belt. We were always told what our Sensei thought a black belt should be and what was expected of us. If you didn't want that, or like me, felt you weren't up to it, stay at 1st Kyu. The black belt's were the elite and still should be.

[Anne Onimous]

I did this, was a 1st Kyu of 8 years before I felt ready for the responsibility of a black belt. We were always told what our Sensei thought a black belt should be and what was expected of us. If you didn't want that, or like me, felt you weren't up to it, stay at 1st Kyu. The black belt's were the elite and still should be.

I really like this perspective. The 'black belt' is such a standard goal, and while it has good reason to be so, I find that people tend to set goals to reach certain ranks rather than to set goals to reach certain levels of proficiency. The error is in thinking that the rank corresponds to a specific level of expertise, when the reality is that the rank is just an aid used in pre-assessing an individual's knowledge. It is not always precise.

I'm not sure if my financial situation will allow me to promote as often as I would normally want, but I can take comfort in the fact that my progression is not contingent upon rank advancement.

[Zaine]

The error is in thinking that the rank corresponds to a specific level of expertise.

I think the error is that it doesn't anymore.

[Anne Onimous]

The error is in thinking that the rank corresponds to a specific level of expertise.

I think the error is that it doesn't anymore.

Well, I don't know how strict the gradings used to be, but things definitely have gone downhill in terms of quality control, for sure.