What is traditional?

[ShoriKid]

Thought I would post this one here in the general forum instead of hiding it away in the karate section so here goes.

What is traditional martial arts training to you? Where do you draw the line in development or an art? Is it the methods used or the ideas contained by a certain set of instructors? Is there a time period after which it isn't "traditional" any more? Was it the 1950's, 60's, 70's? Or was it the training methods from the 20's, 30's, 40's?

Can you change something and still be traditional? Can you train in more than one style or with more than one instructor and still be traditional? Where is the line between "traditional" martial arts and "modern/mixed" (not MMA in this context) martial arts?

Lets here it folks, what are your thoughts?

[Wastelander]

We can argue semantics all we want but, honestly, the general martial arts public uses "traditional" as a classification without much in the way of actual criteria. Some arts that are labelled "traditional" are karate, judo, taekwondo, kung fu, and silat, and they are generally classified as such regardless of style or personal methods.

The only thing I can see for saying that these are traditional arts is that they all wear non-Western clothing and use terminology that isn't necessarily native to where they are being practiced. For example, in karate and judo you wear a gi and use Japanese terminology, even though you may not be Japanese or live in Japan.

On the flipside, martial arts like Muay Thai, boxing and wrestling are generally considered "modern", and they all tend to use Western clothing and mostly native language terminology. BJJ is a different one because it is considered a modern art, but it uses a gi and uses a mixture of non-native terminology (Japanese and Portuguese), although there is also a lot of no-gi BJJ that uses native terminology as well. I have heard of it being called "traditional BJJ" (with a gi and Japanese/Portuguese) and "modern BJJ" (without a gi and using native terminology).

My own personal definition of a traditional martial art is fairly simple: a martial art that has has its methods and practices passed from one generation to another, which then passes it on without much change, if any. For karate, that started happening in the 1930's when styles started to really solidify and cross-training started to become less common. For boxing, that happened a very, very, very long time ago and really only changed when boxing gloves and Queensbury Rules were introduced, and now it is traditional again, by my definition. BJJ is a traditional art when done in the manner of the Gracies, but only starting to become a traditional art in the realm of no-gi BJJ. MMA isn't a traditional art by my definition, and really can't be simply because there are so many methods and practices involved that it can't form one cohesive tradition.

[Zoodles]

The use of "traditional martial arts" always gives me a bit of chuckle. The traditional martial arts common to the western world are boxing, wrestling and fencing. In the west, Karate, Judo and Taekwondo are Johnny come latelies. Yet somehow, they are now called "traditional" and many people do not see boxing wrestling and fencing as real martial arts at all.

[bushido_man96]

A tradition is an act or process or other such thing that it followed because it has been followed in the past. People in the Martial Arts sometimes fail to see that traditions can be started at any time, and as long as the new act or process is adhered to, then it becomes a tradition as well.

I think what most "traditional" stylists try to do is adhere to what someone started so as not to change it, either because they feel it can't be improved upon, or is "the way it is supposed to be," or in order to not lose what was taught, whether it be applicable or efficient or not.