Seppuku

[Dobbersky]

Question, in addition to Seppuku, what about being given the "honour" of being a "second" for the person acting out the ritual. Could you be a "second" and would it not be deemed as murder or at least manslaughter?

[Zaine]

Question, in addition to Seppuku, what about being given the "honour" of being a "second" for the person acting out the ritual. Could you be a "second" and would it not be deemed as murder or at least manslaughter?

Different time. When this was a common practice no, there was no qualms about this at all. Our Western conceptions of Morality and honor make understanding this a very hard thing. It's cultural relativism at its best.

[DWx]

Interesting question and some great posts.

As has been said already, suicide for the samurai was something different because of the culture and code the adhered to. I can't really imagine it happening all that often nowadays.

WRT sucide in general (where the person doesn't commit it due to a terminal or severely debilitating illness) I wouldn't want to comment on whether it is cowardice or not. I think it's easy to condemn those that might turn to suicide but to think about it and go through with it, the person must be in such a dark place that death does seem to be the only relief from the pain or only way to atone for what they've done. I think it's easy to talk about the pain and suffering they cause to those they leave behind but I can't imagine what kind of suffering a person must be experiencing to give all that up and end their life.

Also with seppuku, it wasn't just for atonement or as a way to restore honour after disgrace. It was also sometimes committed when the samurai didn't want to fall into enemy hands. In that respect it isn't all that far away from Western soldiers or spies committing suicide rather suffering at the hands of the enemy and compromising their allies.

Somewhat related, in my style of TKD, the forms we practice are named after someone or something from Korean culture that embodies . I always found it fascinating that Gyebaek (who was a general in the Silla dynasty) killed his wife and child so that they wouldn't fall into the hands of his enemies and so that he wouldn't be distracted by them during his final battle.

[bushido_man96]

Complete cowardice. To me, it says "Not only do I feel like i've failed, but I am too much of a coward to try to make up for it, so I want to do some ridiculous ritual to bring as much drama as possible to make people feel sorry for me while I run away from the problem forever and leave everything to other people."

This is more the way I feel about it. I base my feelings on suicide on my religious beliefs, as well. I just don't see the honor in a ritualistic method of suicide. It says to me, "I give up, because I can't fix what's been done." Maybe I just don't really understand the viewpoint the Samurai had on the subject, but its just too foreign to me, I guess.