Am I in a mcdojo?

[Epyon]

I just started training shotokan karate and I think we spar with gloves on, but when I watch clips of japanese karate association karate fights they are always without gloves. This is really distressing me.

[Zaine]

Most dojos spar with gloves. Some don't, and some dojos will abandon the gloves at higher levels but most dojos use gloves. This is so that new people don't stray away mostly. Getting punched hurts even with gloves on and this can be discouraging. Gloves don't point to a dojo being a McDojo, but to a consideration of safety and newer students.

[Wastelander]

I just started training shotokan karate and I think we spar with gloves on, but when I watch clips of japanese karate association karate fights they are always without gloves. This is really distressing me.

The use of gloves doesn't make it a McDojo--my dojo uses gloves, and so do Muay Thai, MMA and boxing gyms. Gloves are a safety precaution to help reduce injuries from sparring, and there is no shame in trying to prevent injuries during training.

If you are concerned about being in a McDojo, you should know that they are martial arts schools that are trying to make a profit, first and foremost, and if the students get good training out of it then that's just a bonus. Some of the features of a McDojo are very high fees, fees for just about everything you can think of (belts, tests, uniform patches, etc.), contracts that lock you into continuing to pay them that are difficult to get out of, and many times these schools teach everyone the exact same curriculum without caring about the students becoming proficient and will often let them pass rank tests as long as they pay for them. Be aware that some places can be a McDojo and still teach good, effective martial arts, though.

[Epyon]

Thank you for the reactions. I am having serious doubts about the dojo.

So I wonder, is 18 euro's a month alot of money? I believe you have to pay money for exams too and the exams are twice a year.

Some parts of the training all the belts train together (most people are around my age btw, which is 19) and later in the training the group gets divided into lower belts and higher belts. Lower belts are the people with white belt and yellow belt.

I think the trainer also told me that real matches are with gloves, which I hope not to be true. I believe they also said not to spar that much during trainings. I've been two full trainings and haven't seen any sparring. I know that I am not ready for sparring, but I haven't seen any higher belts spar either.

Are there any other things you guys should know? My trainer ordered my ki, but he said I could get it somewhere else too if I wanted, that was up to me. The first payment had to be for the first quarter of the year (3 months upfront) and after that you just pay once a month. If you want to stop you have to notify them two months ahead. It always gets extended your membership for another quarter if you don't notify them you want to stop.

[darksoul]

Goede dag, Epyon.

Honestly, it does not sound like a McDojo at all. Using gloves is just safer and smarter. All the competitions I've done have had gloves and foot pads. Bare-knuckle fights are rough and very very very rare. I believe Kyokushin does them, but require a certain rank to participate.

18euros is not a lot of money. It's close to what I pay (approx $30 Canadian/month) and twice a year grading is not a McDojo time frame. McDojo's will grade every couple of months.

As for paying for exams, it depends. Are you paying for the belt you're working towards or for extra instructors to be there while you grade? What's the cost of the grading?

All in all, I don't think you're in a McDojo.

Cheers en succes!

Edited December 4, 2012 by darksoul

[Zaine]

That's not uncommon. It does sound like its a little contract-like and I have to be honest I don't like that you have to give them two months notice. Your matches will be with gloves indefinitely, especially at the lower ranks. The splitting of the lower, mid and high grades is a common thing regardless. This is so that they make sure certain ranks are learning what they need to, but it also stinks to me, but this is because I've always preferred the one class format. I did, however, attend higher belt classes once a week, but it was mostly so that we could learn the forms necessary for our rank. 18 euros doesn't seem like a bad monthly fee.

[Epyon]

Goede dag, darksoul. Dutch?

I'm happy to hear that. I just read all these things on the internet avbout mcdojo's and got a bit concerned, because I just started and want to learn things the right way.

About the exams, I guess you just pay for the fact that you're having a exam.

Hmm, you guys are probably right. I think in our dojo it takes about 5 years (if you pass all exams the first time) to get your 1st kyu brown belt.

@Zaine: on monday mostly the higher belts train and they told me that maybe after I few months I could train with them, but right now it's too fast for me.

[Zaine]

Hmm, you guys are probably right. I think in our dojo it takes about 5 years (if you pass all exams the first time) to get your 1st kyu brown belt.

That's a common timeline for schools who aren't McDojos. It's normal to be concerned about the training your getting and it's good that your doing the research and asking for outside opinions. It sounds like you have a pretty solid school there.

[Wastelander]

From the information you've given now, I would say it is definitely not a McDojo. You are paying about $24 USD per month for your training, while the average in the US is $120 USD--I don't know what the rates are, typically, in the Netherlands, but you are getting very affordable training. Paying a testing fee is not unusual, since the tests are typically not normal class times and the instructors do need to be paid for participating, but the fees should not cost more than your monthly tuition.

As far as gloves go, you really should embrace the idea of sparring with them, because they are a good idea. If you insist that you only want to spar without gloves then you should try Kyokushin instead.

[Epyon]

Good, great to know that it's not a sham. I do feel like I was a little quick to judge, since the training did seem to be go

This is in Germany and they spar/fight without gloves. On youtube I saw more videos without gloves than with, that's why I started to wonder. I also thought that if the Japanse are fighting without gloves, then it must be right to do so.