Internal forms in karate

[bassaiguy]

Karate is not an internal art, but there are forms known as 'tanren kata" that are used to develop power, body conditioning and, some instructors would say, ki. Tanren kata include Sanchin from the Goju-ryu family and Naihanchi/Tekki from Shorin-ryu/Shotokan.

I have very little exposure to CMA in general and have had only the most brief introduction to Yang Taiji. However, I'm hoping there might be people on the board that have practiced both Chinese internal arts and karate who might be able to comment on similarities. Clearly there is a physical difference (soft vs. hard), but are there intrinsic similarities in the way tanren kata and internal forms develop fajing/power and even chi/ki (whatever that is).

[bushido_man96]

I've always been skeptical about the idea of a form being "internal" or "external." Power development comes from the muscles, and how they interact around the skeletal system. I think the idea of ki or chi is more related to the ability to use the hips and the core to create good power through sound technique and breathing technique.

I have been practicing Naifanchi Shodan, but don't really know of any internal benefits from it.

[JusticeZero]

It always seemed to me that the only major difference between "Internal" and "External" is the difference between "Obsess over form first before trying to do it hard" versus "Try to do it hard; we'll fix the form later".

[bassaiguy]

I should have been more specific. I'm a true skeptic when it comes to the spiritual properties of chi/ki. When I have seen high level taiji people hit really hard they have attributed it to fajing, which I think means some kind of total coordination between breath, core strength and strike (I think this what bushido-man was describing). I think this is the chief benefit of internal forms - that it allows for the development of this really amazing power to strike with great force with seemingly little effort. I spent about a year/year and half working only on Tekki Shodan, mostly bunkai, but also movement and conditioning, and I don't think I have developed anything close the fajing power (or relaxed power) I have seen demonstrated. So, what are we karate people missing?

[JusticeZero]

Form and structure. I don't know about the Karate form exactly, but gongfu tends to have some counter-intuitive ways of generating acceleration or peak impulse that are based around constructing a rigid structure inside of the target.

[bushido_man96]

I don't know that Karate folks are missing anything. I've known some great strikers. I think some people get caught up in the mysticism of what chi/ki/internal styles are, and want to try to obsess over methods that no one can really seem to explain.

If you are practicing bunkai, then the focus of your practice there is in the application, and not so much the strike itself. The strike is important, but the outcome of the application is fore in the mind. If you are hitting a makiwara or a heavy bag, then the focus is on the strike, and all of its components.

[sensei8]

I don't know that Karate folks are missing anything. I've known some great strikers. I think some people get caught up in the mysticism of what chi/ki/internal styles are, and want to try to obsess over methods that no one can really seem to explain.

If you are practicing bunkai, then the focus of your practice there is in the application, and not so much the strike itself. The strike is important, but the outcome of the application is fore in the mind. If you are hitting a makiwara or a heavy bag, then the focus is on the strike, and all of its components.

Solid post!!

[sensei8]

I've never been a great fan of "external"/"internal"...I just know one thing...attack me, and I'm going to hit your external so hard that your internal is going to hurt...a lot!!

[bushido_man96]

I've never been a great fan of "external"/"internal"...I just know one thing...attack me, and I'm going to hit your external so hard that your internal is going to hurt...a lot!!

That's fantastic!

[cheesefrysamurai]

wow this is something i wish i could grasp