Ego at the top

[Patrick]

Thanks Brian.

Patrick

[evergrey]

You have been taught that a martial artist should leave their ego at the dojo door. I have been taught that a martial artist should be free of ego everywhere. Thus the saying, "Any where can be a dojo.".

Haha very true, and something that we do try to live here as well.

[sensei8]

Recognizing that it IS ego and not well placed confidence is quite important before one can counsel another within the dojo/school.

Imho.

[sensei8]

Misplaced ego's within the MA destroy the betterment across the board, imho.

I agree, Bob.

Displaced egos anywhere cause the same elsewhere. We Martial Artists aren't the only ones who deal with them, that is for sure. But, such is life, and it goes on.

I concur wholeheartedly!!

[sensei8]

Thank you all for participating! Heh, really I just put up the dojo cleaning part as a little story illustrating humility.

What I really worry about is when people at the top do or teach something that is seriously dangerous and harmful, or do something that is a real disservice to their students, but they cannot accept any criticism and cannot accept the fact that what they are doing is bad news!

Please describe "people at the top". Nobody's above the law, so to speak, at the dojo/school. I'm one of the "people at the top" within Shindokan, but I always keep an open mind and an open door.

Also, are you referring to things in general or are you referring to what's on the curriculum?

Imho, things in general are everyone's business and everyone should keep an eye wide open.

Things within the proven sound curriculum is the concern of the Chief Instructor alone and not anybody else's business; don't like what's being taught...go somewhere else. However, if a student is being taught things that are unsound/unsafe/dangerous/harmful/disservice, and a student perceives it to be so, then by all means leave and leave immediately.

For me, if something in general is "seriously dangerous and harmful, or do something that is a real disservice to their students", someone from the Hombu or myself will stop it immediately providing facts dictate to do so. Here say and conjecture don't work with me.

For me, concerning the curriculum, I'll only give consideration when the curriculum is concerned to very, very, very, few within Shindokan.

[ps1]

People at the top of their respective professions (be it martial arts or business) have usually given everything and sacrificed alot to get where they are. They work longer hours, take part in fewer social events, and even avoid things they like (food, activities, alcohol) in order to get ahead. The sacrifices are painful, long, and difficult. But, in doing so, they usually learn and see much more than they typical 9 to 5er. Because of this, when an "average" worker or martial arts "hobbyist" questions their methods or techniques, it can be a bit off putting. Imagine a high school football player trying to tell a professional how to carry the ball...or someone fresh out of college trying to explain to Donald Trump how to make money. It can be both insulting and egotistical. So they often respond in kind.

With that said, some people are just jerks. There is a myth out there that says Martial Arts instills "discipline and respect." It does not. It's up to the instructor to demand respect. To teach those without it that they will not get ahead without respect. Many young instructors promote people becaue they see the person is physically skilled. But they do not realize that the person should also display the moral characteristics you believe in. As a result, a jerk gets promoted higher than he/she should.

Here's Relson Gracie talking about the importance he and his father put on the personal side of things. It's important because these people are going to be representing you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AjYuPFFEGc

[pdbnb]

Another question I'd throw out; can one have ego, and still be respectful? I think so. One with ego probably just respects him/herself more.

I think this is an interesting question because people treat "ego" like a bad thing, but "confidence" like a good thing where the line between the two is blurry and, often, they are the same. People want you to be confident, but when it rubs them the wrong way, it's "ego." We build people up to tear them down. "You are great, but only if I say you are great. Once you say it, you have a big ego."

I believe that the best way to go is to let others speak for you. That is the greatest illustration of the quality of your work. No one wants to hear you say you are great. I've been managing online communities for 12 years, but I never refer to myself as an "expert" because it is unseemly, makes me uncomfortable and makes it sound like I am praising myself. I think that is for other people to say. I'll call myself a veteran, I'll say I have a lot of experience. But, that's it.

That said, I also believe that there are times you have to look out for yourself because if you don't, no one else will. A veteran Sensei might find the need to remind a student that they've been around the block a few times. Call that self confidence or call it ego. Either way, I guess you're right.

The danger, as Ev and everyone is referencing, is when people think too highly of themselves. That you believe your own press a little too much, stop being able to relate to other people and you begin to praise yourself. That's when you can lose your hunger to be greater than what you are now and lose your connection with others, because you've become less relatable and less approachable. Ev's Sensei's lesson about setting an example rings true to something I learned from my dad.

Without getting into too much detail, suffice to say that my dad has been management, upper management or executive level of his field for a long time. He manages teams of people with all different job functions. The thing I learned was that it doesn't matter how high you are in an organization - if you see a piece of trash, you pick it up. You have to set an example for others to follow and you never want it to appear that such a task is beneath you. If you create that belief, then you've failed.

Of course, Ev, Brian and Danielle all have to deal with my ego, so who knows. Heh.

Patrick

Excellent post! I have been accused of having an ego simply for saying I write better than most people I know (true), and even some professional authors (arguably true) and that I'm good at this or that.

Ultimately, I think the line to ego is crossed once you start to have a problem with being criticised or losing. I am part of wrestling roleplaying communities online, and I notice this quite often.I'm fine with losing to a newb IF THEY DID BETTER THAN ME that time, but most people go "omg I can't believe I lost to *insert member name* I'm going to quit!" That, IMHO, is what ego actually is.

With that said, when I practised martial arts as a kid (in a 6-12 yo class), our Sensei would often bully us to push us harder. Nobody thought anything of it, but looking back, was bullying kids a power-trip for him? He was somewhat more reserved with his adult class, except with the teenage members (under 17 or so) with whom he was the same as with the kids.

[Dobbersky]

.......

Excellent post! I have been accused of having an ego simply for saying I write better than most people I know (true), and even some professional authors (arguably true) and that I'm good at this or that.

quote]

Hi pdbnb, Welcome to the forum, good points so far as you've been accused of writing better than most I and I bet most of the other members would like to read your resume in the Introductions Section of the forum.

Looking forward to reading some more of your posts

OSU

[kensei]

Two things, First off their is a big difference between a big and out of control ego and having pride (yes ego) in your skills and knowledge. Its how you handle the Pride you have and not let it become a big out of control ego....Trust me I know of a gent that had a way out of control ego...major skills and NOT much knowledge.....Dangerous mix to have a great athelet who has a huge ego and little capacity to think and explore things...we used to say he had " a million dollar body and a five cent brain" because he was just a jock!

No, the second thing is that most people with big out of Ego will push to be at the top harder than the rest of us. They strive to be in the lime light and want the money and fame that comes with it. However, the true people at the top who know how to teach, know the history and the techniques...well they dont have to try to be at the top, they tend to go their on their own with the push of others.

[ShotokanMaster]

Egos need to be put on Aside Because its Not a good Some karatekas's are like that once they get to higher belt they think they all that it is not right everybody has to be the same My Sensie Abe told me that long time ago when his student became a black belt they begun to separate from our dojo and build their own dojo and some of them have big egos there are only 9 black belts and mostly only 5 compete or only 3 goes to the dojo and trained for me When i get to black belt I will stay to that dojo and teach and I make sure my student have no big ego there is no better than the other ones were all the same and if your ego comes dont go to my class you think your better but theres a person more better than you so ya keep the ego aside and make all everybody equal