Evolve OR Dissolve OR Stagnant!!

[Dobbersky]

I think that depending on where you go, you can see all three in Kyokushin.

I have seen sections that refused to go with chnage and have unortunately dissolved.

In the same (reluctance?) to change, I know there are quite a few sections who dont want to shift and try to keep to Oyama Sosai's original teachings - as they believe they were taught.

Conversely, I currently train with an evolving sections of Kyokushin, which has implemented seperate classes for Kobudo (Goju derived) and general fitness (boot camps). This has both its ups and downs - for example, I was talking to one of the higher kyu grades not long ago and I remarked that Kyokushin only ever had one Bo Staff kata, to which he replied, no it doesn't, it has lots (I think that he are under the impression that the Kobudo is all Kyokushin based. However, I find myself learning more and more techniques that are easily adaptable to my everyday situations through this eveolution.

Is it still Kyokushin as Oyama taught it?... Yes.

Are there other elements being taught?... Yes.

Does this make it a bad thing?... No, not IMO.

One thing I will note though, is that I think a lot of people tend to think of Kyokushin as being based totally in tournament knock-down fighting, which is simply not the case. I have been taught all the bunkai for all of the kata we learn, and we do rigorous self defense sessions on top of full-contact training.

I alsop think that (and some Kyokushin practitions will disagree with me) Oyama had intended for Kyokushin to be an evolving style. Thats how he came up with it afterall - by taking what he thought were the more important bits fro the styles he had previously trained in and putting them into a single "style"...

You're forgetting all the different Organisations that exist since the death of Sosai. And there's varying changes to the context of the syllabus depending on who heads that particular organisation.

Also regarding evolving, you forgot Ashihara karate, Enshin Karate, Daiko Juku, Japanese Kickboxing amongst others. Hence my thread on this forum and K4L asking are Kyokushin Karateka ashamed of the evolved versions of Kyokushin.

OSU

[yamesu]

I think that depending on where you go, you can see all three in Kyokushin.

I have seen sections that refused to go with chnage and have unortunately dissolved.

In the same (reluctance?) to change, I know there are quite a few sections who dont want to shift and try to keep to Oyama Sosai's original teachings - as they believe they were taught.

Conversely, I currently train with an evolving sections of Kyokushin, which has implemented seperate classes for Kobudo (Goju derived) and general fitness (boot camps). This has both its ups and downs - for example, I was talking to one of the higher kyu grades not long ago and I remarked that Kyokushin only ever had one Bo Staff kata, to which he replied, no it doesn't, it has lots (I think that he are under the impression that the Kobudo is all Kyokushin based. However, I find myself learning more and more techniques that are easily adaptable to my everyday situations through this eveolution.

Is it still Kyokushin as Oyama taught it?... Yes.

Are there other elements being taught?... Yes.

Does this make it a bad thing?... No, not IMO.

One thing I will note though, is that I think a lot of people tend to think of Kyokushin as being based totally in tournament knock-down fighting, which is simply not the case. I have been taught all the bunkai for all of the kata we learn, and we do rigorous self defense sessions on top of full-contact training.

I alsop think that (and some Kyokushin practitions will disagree with me) Oyama had intended for Kyokushin to be an evolving style. Thats how he came up with it afterall - by taking what he thought were the more important bits fro the styles he had previously trained in and putting them into a single "style"...

You're forgetting all the different Organisations that exist since the death of Sosai. And there's varying changes to the context of the syllabus depending on who heads that particular organisation.

Also regarding evolving, you forgot Ashihara karate, Enshin Karate, Daiko Juku, Japanese Kickboxing amongst others. Hence my thread on this forum and K4L asking are Kyokushin Karateka ashamed of the evolved versions of Kyokushin.

OSU

I dont think I forget all of the IKO's (IKO1, 2, 3... infinity). These were actually explicitly what I was thinking about when I said "I know there are quite a few sections who dont want to shift and try to keep to Oyama Sosai's original teachings - as they believe they were taught."

i dont really like to discuss the politics of Kyokushin post-Sosai, as there are quite a few heirs to the thone in their own right, and all of us seem to have allegiance to one or another in particular.

I didnt include, or think of Ashihara, Enshin, Daiko or Seidokaikan in my discussions. I would be of the opinion that they are no longer Kyokushin - now being their own brand/style, and so did not incldue in my original post.

Much like Kyokushin evolved from other styles, these are styles evolving out of Kyokushin.

Osu.