Stances: launching pad or landing gear?

[bushido_man96]

Yet another topic idea retrieved from Redmond's book, Kata, The Folk Dances of Shotokan.

On pp 107-108, he is discussing one of his principles of excellent kata, and is elaborating on strong, flexible stances.

In this section, he refers to how stances tend to be viewed as the platform, or launching pad, from which we deliver techniques. The example he uses is the reverse punch in the front stance, driving off the rear leg, turning the body and engaging the hips to fire the fist.

This idea makes sense to me; how many of us as instructors set students up in a stance, and then proceed to teach techniques from the stance, fist on hip, use the hip, fire the technique out. Punches in front stances, often time knife hand strikes or middle blocks in back stances, etc. In forms, every technique has a stance.

But, Redmond likes to refer to the stances as a landing gear as opposed to a launching pad. He said he takes his view from watching two Karate experts spar one another. He said "the very best Shotokan sparring champions of old" didn't assume rooted positions, but rather put their weight on the balls of their feet, and moved swiftly into stance after stance, like landing gear.

He goes on to explain how the body moves forward and backward or sideways, and the feet have to move to catch us in this new position. It makes sense to me; after all, walking is nothing more than controlled forward falling.

So, Redmond sees the stances as the result of motion, as opposed to a posture from which to launch a technique.

I think he has some good thoughts on this, and it makes sense to me explained this way.

Other thoughts on the matter?

[Chunmonchek]

While we teach and train stance extensively, in any kind of 2-man, "stance" occurs only momentarily when, and for so long as, contact is made, whether offensive, defensive or grappling...all else is transition.

[JusticeZero]

...You mean you didn't know that?

[Harkon72]

Stance is a position for launching technique and to recover from them. Bruce Lee didn't believe in them though

[ninjanurse]

A block is a strike, a strike is a block.

[xo-karate]

At older age I've started think of stances more as a physical exercise.

I have to agree with the Bruce Lee comment on stances, if karateka is doing makiwara, heavy bag or sparring. (Practice will mold the stance to suitable for the person and his abilities. )

If you are doing only basic training and no contact sparring, you might not feel the feedback of a correct stance

[JusticeZero]

I've never agreed with Lee on this. Stances are transitional structures that connect all your movements together. Just because they start to look and feel more natural and less forced over time doesn't mean they are discarded in favor of random standing around. Certain geometric relationships exist in the structure for good reason, and to move away from their use would derange these structural connective elements and disrupt the movements attached to them.

[darksoul]

I'm in between on this. I believe in a good stance to a point.

I believe in them because they are a good starting point with guard, but I don't think you should be so "stuck" to your stance. Make sense? Probably not, I rarely do

[DWx]

Great topic. I think it somewhat depends on your styles ethos and how they teach it and I guess, your skill level. Nowadays I wholeheartedly agree with the idea that stances are momentary positions which exist at the moment the technique lands and I hope that my sparring reflects this. But as a beginner, it can be hard to get this idea into your head. Like you said, stances are often taught with the technique applied on top. Even in the style of TKD I do where it is explicit that as any technique connects, the stance locks momentarily then you return to the neutral relaxed position, it's a hard idea to grasp as a beginner. Early on in my training, I'd be thinking in terms of moving my stance and then using a technique on top. So in sparring I'd want to move, would think about moving my feet first and then the technique would come. I think the idea that you are just controlling your falling is great as it is the motion itself that results in stances.

...You mean you didn't know that?

Seems simple to you I guess because it's inherent to your style As has been said, in the Eastern Martial Arts, stances are often taught as fixed positions to launch a punch or strike from (as in how they are in kata).

[darksoul]

Great post, DWx.

That actually got me thinking (the moving your feet first then thinking bit) and you're right. Back at lower grades I did the same thing too. While this is only loosely related to the topic, I've started training techniques from a neutral position now (no guard, arms to the side, your standard nonchalant standing "stance") and that's where I think stinking hard to stances can be a hindrance. In the street, when are you going to be in "perfect" stance when you are attacked? I mean sure, you can get in stance rather quickly, but when that first punch comes, chances are you will not be in stance.

I don't know... maybe I'm over thinking it? Maybe I need more coffee... yeah... coffee sounds good.