Kata: the folk dances of Shotokan

[sensei8]

I've been reading a bit in the book already. One note the author keyed on was the Chinese practitioner's apparent willingness to seek out any kind of form, and then alter it if they felt it needed to be altered for them to use, in contrast to the Okinawan and Japanese idea of "standardizing" the katas into having a right and wrong way of them being done.

Standardizing kata is a bad idea because, imho, practitioners of the MA are suppose to evolve, and so is the kata. Standards of kata(s) can only stagnate the evolution of the MA, and this is to include kata. Hence...interpretation(s) and the like of any said kata.

[bushido_man96]

I agree, Bob. I think with the way styles like Shotokan have come on, and made kata into how they are viewed, and the same hard-line thinking that deems them "precious," "scared," and "unchangeable" has led to that stagnation.

[Dobbersky]

Agreed, I practice Bassai and Nijushiho slightly different than the core

[ShoriKid]

I've been reading a bit in the book already. One note the author keyed on was the Chinese practitioner's apparent willingness to seek out any kind of form, and then alter it if they felt it needed to be altered for them to use, in contrast to the Okinawan and Japanese idea of "standardizing" the katas into having a right and wrong way of them being done.

I can't speak for Japanese karate traditions, but having multiple variants of a kata taught by the same instructor to different students wasn't unusual in Okinawa pre-WWII. Multiple instructors teaching you multiple versions of the same kata wasn't that big a deal either at the time. Post war that all changed though,

[bushido_man96]

Yeah, the general idea appeared to be learn and adapt for how you liked. Much looser than now.

[Nagasu]

Hello new here.

I'm not sure kata needs "bunkai" to make it immediately effective.

Sometimes, training the "omote" of the form wields better results by just doing rather than leaping ahead into what could be.

Nagasu

[bushido_man96]

Define "omote."

[ShoriKid]

If he's using the definition I think he is, it's a "literal" translation. A low block is a low block, a punch is a punch. Look at any JKA Shotokan "bunkai" on youtube. Attackers coming from ten feet back with telegraphed, "karate" style, attacks waiting for the kata performer to turn and defend. Not the most useful tool for training with kata and not particularly good for a beginner in my opinion. Better off to get a good practical set of wrote responses that address common attacks and learn those and how they were derived than a set of neigh unworkable drills against attacks you will most likely never see.

[JohnnyB]

From my POV, Bunkai is just a tool my Sensei is using to explain all those 'weird' techniques we are forced to learn and perform.

I have no idea if I will ever use it for Free Sparring or Self Defence after mastering those.

I am always sceptical about many techniques we learn, for the reason ShoriKid described. All Bunkai demonstrations start from telegraphed, "karate" style attacks waiting for the kata performer to turn and defend.

[JusticeZero]

Grain of salt - my art isn't Karate, but... - The "bunkai" in my material tends to take the form of me showing how some of the basic transitional movements that they might be in the middle of anyways can be applied in various mayhemmish ways. For instance, "This is how you might defend against an attack, and your hand comes up to guard your face.. oh, and if their wrist happens to be here when you do it, here's how you can do a quick little off-balance, and your next movement could chop them in the nose and take them down. If not, hey, you still defended the attack, and you're in position for the usual stuff."

I always note that they shouldn't do any of these things if it is going to make things worse, but that all their movements should be transitioning between defended positions anyways, so go ahead and throw a few transitions through stuff to see if anything useful comes out of it. If nothing else, the act of transition will 'reshuffle the deck' so to speak and open up different opportunities than the ones that you had before while forcing the other person to adjust.