Karate with no Soul?

[Harkon72]

A local Dojo has made the decision to teach Karate but to drop the Kata from the syllabus. Is Karate actually Karate without the Kata? I say a definite no!

Kata is the Soul of Karate; that's where the style's techniques are taught. Can you have a style at all with no Kata???

[Dobbersky]

This sounds like freestyle "sport" karate. Their main goal is WKA, WKF, WUKO etc points fighting competition.

I agree real Karate is only complete with Kata. But karate only means "empty hand"

I used to feel like they were cheating their students of a true correct way of Karate, but then after many years and listenig to one of my friends, I realised that the students who train with them were meant to train there, karma, as you would say.

Many people don't think kata is worth the time. Many say they can't remember the sequences etc. So this non-kata style fits perfectly into their existence.

Not many schools do street attack (not karate in jeans) Bunkai to kata, most do the karate attack bunkai, so possible students can't see it use outside the Dojo.

So in my opinion, acknowledge and accept they're there, and just carry on with what You're doing.

OSU

[MasterPain]

You have once again opened the can of unquenchable philosophical thirstworms.

My opinion is that it would be dishonest to continue to call it (insert style name) karate. However, the style could still be conveyed through the techniques found in the kata in the form of one steps.

As far as having a style with no kata, yes, you can. Kata is an Eastern idea, and I think Western styles still count as martial arts. It's reverse ethnic Chauvinism to feel otherwise in my opinion.

[Harkon72]

Osu! Our Bunkai is tested at Self Defense level, very intensely. I agree with some argument that if you don't teach effective Bunkai to Kata it is meaningless. Teaching Kata for Kata's sake is no good at adult level. The Bunkai is where the style is. The pace and rhythm of the Kata is the way you are taught, then the way you develop your own Karatedo. I spent an hour doing Kata in the Sun in a field today, eight different ones. It's an amazing feeling; visualization, focus and poise together with power and control. My wife is a beginner, but she uses the Teisho block in Pinan Nidan for self defense already. It might be an extreme opinion, and call me old fashioned, but Karate without Kata is like making Bread with no Flour!

[SamsIAmz]

I personally love kata. However, karate means empty hand, and signifies the void of the martial arts. That all martial arts are really one, all come from the same void and emptiness. Additionally, in older times karate was essentially whatever worked. They found use for kata as a means of transmission of what works. But if nowadays someone finds a way that works that differs from kata, then who is to say it's not karate?

I personally wouldn't want to train without kata. I find it one of the most useful tools, but everyone has their own goals and feelings regarding martial arts practice.

[bushido_man96]

I don't think Kata really has to be a mainstay in order for Karate to be Karate. Other styles successfully complete their curriculum without kata, and Karate could do so, as well. I'm pretty sure there was a time when there was "empty hand" with out katas, and the katas were designed as time went on.

Now, just because you drop the katas, doesn't mean that Karate becomes "just Kickboxing." It can become that, if you want, or, the focus can remain on self-defense through only the bunkai practice, along with other paired work to improve self-defense aspects.

I think problem lies in that Kata has been such a big part of Karate for such a long time that no one thinks it should ever be removed.

[Ulubis Minor]

Well I am not the biggest fan of kata, but Kata is VERY important to karate. Kata would teach new moves and ways of movements, while sparring taught you how to use them in an actual situation. Like in some martial arts kata comes from dances designed to hide the art. And if I may ask what dojo/gym is this? Osu.

[sensei8]

Kata is Karate, and without it, it's an empty shell; all three of the K's must be there or it's not karate, imho!! Kata is the heart of karate, and kata is the soul of karate...by all means...absolutely.

Imho...the main part of karate is the study of kata. Do they know the kata? I mean really know the kata, not the sequence of the movements, but the heart and the core of the kata. The point of studying kata, and not just performing it, because the two are night and day, and in that, to study the kata is to learn what the applications of the techniques are, and how to use them.

Learning how to apply our power, how to move, how to react, and so on and so forth. These things you can learn from studying the kata, and then kumite with a purpose, not just known movements, but movements that echo kata.

The three K's [kihon, kata, and kumite] are all training methods of karate, and imho, anything removed from these training methods weakens dramatically the essence of karate. Take a three legged stool. Take away one of its legs, that stool is weakened, unbalanced, and unstable; undependable and unwanted.

MAists who speak out against kata only speak that way because they've no minimum of an idea of what kata is; kata isn't a dance, and neither is it a waste of time for a karateka to pursue. I heard it once said..."If one only practiced Naihanchi Shodan [kata] for the rest of their lives, it would not be a wasted life!" Forgive me for not remembering which karate master had said this, and if I've quoted said statement incorrectly, again, forgive me, however, the intent of what this karate master is saying shouldn't be ignored; passed off as meaningless dribble.

Nonetheless, I guess I could understand one excluding kata because they don't truly know kata...no...not really.

[MasterPain]

Can you have a style at all with no Kata???

I think this is the question that bothers me here. I can get that Karate may not be Karate without kata. Why do we say "just kickboxing" concerning an art with no kata? What's wrong with kickboxing? What's wrong with wrestling? Or fencing? Or Aikido?

[sensei8]

Can you have a style at all with no Kata???

I think this is the question that bothers me here. I can get that Karate may not be Karate without kata. Why do we say "just kickboxing" concerning an art with no kata? What's wrong with kickboxing? What's wrong with wrestling? Or fencing? Or Aikido?

Not a thing wrong with them at all; they are what they are and so is their methodologies.