A wrestling back ground in BJJ

[ShoriKid]

I'm sure this has been hashed out here before, but since I don't have any idea how to do a topic search (I get hit in the head for fun, you think I'm good with technology?) I'm going to ask.

What do you guys think about those coming from a wrestling background into BJJ? I've heard some BJJ guys say that wrestlers are too reliant on strength, are too "stiff" or fixed on a movement and don't have any technique. Others like the good balance, heavy hips and transitions. I've been thinking on it and it's come up in some of the pod casts I'm listening too. Open Man and Inside BJJ being the guilty parties. During interviews with well known and highly thought of BJJ instructors and competitors, differing opinions on this topic come up. I know that it's subjective, but I wanted to get the views of my martial kindred here.

Are there benefits of having wrestling training prior, or along side, BJJ training? Are there draw backs of having wrestling training prior to or along side the BJJ training? Is it a mixed bag? Does it matter the person that comes along with the training? Is the driven mentality of a wrestler a good or bad thing?

I've got some views, limited as my exposure to BJJ is, and I'll share them shortly, but I want to hear from others first.

[tallgeese]

My opinion, for what it's worth, leans to the positive; however, there are some common themes to overcome making the jump.

Wrestlers have some great things going for them going in, like you mention, the heavy top game, tight side control, ect. Add to that excellent takedowns and an intrinsic "feel" for the ground and you've got great base. They do tend to be more explosive, but they also have great technique and movement within their sphere.

On the downside, they often (generalizing only) leave their arms and neck extended in bad spots and are less than comfortable working outside their comfort zone. If you can't get them to break this, you end up with the guy waiting to get his blue belt, who can wrestle with the purples easily enough from top, but has no guard game of which to speak. It can hinder growth in that area. But remember, we're just generalizing here, there are also wrestlers who don't bring the attributes listed above as well.

[pittbullJudoka]

Frankly I think that some things that are picked up wrestling are hard to teach to a bjj guy. How to scramble is the biggest thing I've ever noticed. A pure bjj guy has a different style of scramble that doesn't seem as focused as a wrestler. The will to push a given take down or technique doesn't seem to be there either.

The down fall is that wrestlers (in the begining) tend to be uncomfortable on their back so they roll face down and easily give up the back. As tallgesse stated we leave arms hanging out.

Never can hurt to have both.

[ps1]

There are certainly many benefits that wrestlers will have when they enter brazilian Jiu-Jitsu:

1. Excellent Takedowns: Compared to the average BJJer, wrestlers takedowns are great. They have trained singles and doubles so much that it's second nature for them.

2. Takedown Defense: Wrestlers already understand how to defend takedowns and are often too low for Judo throws to be effective.

3. Excellent sense of base: Wrestlers spend their time making sure their back never hits the mat. So they are very tough to sweep over with the basic sweeps.

4. Hip and head control: Wrestlers usually have a keen understanding of how to control the hips and the head in order to keep someone on their back.

5. Combinations: Good wrestlers understand how to transition from one move into another.

6. Aliveness: Wrestling is a contact, combat sport. They are used to being in a physical art with one person against another. This is difficult to teach and some people never pick it up.

Wrestlers also have several disadvantages:

1. Too Fast: Wrestling training at the typical high school has one speed...GO!! So many wrestlers are baffled when they come to BJJ and drill techniques for an hour. They tend to want too much, too fast. They drill and roll way too hard and way too fast.

2. Don't know when to let go: This is true of everyone, but wrestlers are very bad at it. They will get ahold of your head from any ol' position and just try to pop it like a zit. When they don't know what to do "SQUEEZE" becomes the answer.

3. Strength: This kind of goes in line with the first two. They tend to have trouble understanding that muscle isn't required of a good technique. But this is true of most people who are strong, so ...not sure it's fair to blame wrestlers on this one.

4. Back exposure: Wrestlers give up their back and neck like it's going out of style. They're too used to going to referee's position and sprawling to avoid being turned over.

5. Crappy Guard work: Wrestlers can usually manhandle their way through white belts and even give blue belts trouble. So they often make it to high blue belt and even purple and brown belt without really learning good guard work. This isn't their fault so much as their coaches fault though.

All in all, it's not that "Wrestlers" make bad BJJ students. It's the combination of the "meat head" mentality combined with poor coaching that leads many wrestlers down the wrong path in BJJ.

[bushido_man96]

I think the major issue for a Wrestler would be getting over the fact that being on your back is ok in BJJ, then just adapting to the different rule set using chokes and locks. I'd think it would be a great base to have, and BJJ could only make it better.

[brickshooter]

From my own experience, wrestlers feel like they're tripple their weight when they're on top. Pretty interersting use of leverage.

[bushido_man96]

From my own experience, wrestlers feel like they're tripple their weight when they're on top. Pretty interersting use of leverage.

I think that's the "heavy hips" thing. They get good at smushing you.

[ShoriKid]

Getting back to this as I said I would.

My prospective on BJJ is limited. Wrestling less so. I had a great coach that started a great program. Just didn't get all the time in it I wanted. I've kept to that wrestling base over the years though. So, here's my take on my own questions.

Wrestling for BJJ is always a double edged sword. Part of a wrestler's trouble comes from trying to figure out which bone deep habits he keeps and which ones are going to make him pay when he's on the mats in this new format.

Wrestlers benefit from a couple of things. The scramble from a wrestler is at a pace and level BJJ guys don't get most of the time. Wrestlers feel an opening, see a gap and they hit it.

Heavy on top. A wrestler gets any sort of a top position and they will make you pay dearly for that. They know how to ride better than anyone, and how to control and keep you in a bad place.

Good mat sense. Wrestlers tend to have a good sense of what sort of position they are in and how to improve that.

No quit in them at all. Ask a wrestler to go another round, to stay in another minute and he'll do it. Tell him to do twenty more reps on a drill and it will get done. When some guys will quit because they are in a bad spot, uncomfortable or they are tired, most wrestlers won't. The daily grind of training is something they are used to.

The Bad.

Yeah, arms. They hang out. BJJ guys like that. Reaching to pull and turn and manipulate the other guy is a habit and hard to break.

The Back. We were punished for resting on our backs during practice. Extra drills and laps. Every guy I ever talked to it was the same. It was pretty much beaten into you not to stop when you hit your back. To hate it with passion. Getting comfortable off your back takes a long time for wrestlers.

No quit. Wrestlers will push a position when they should bail and go for something else when they feel like they are in a good spot. Push, push, push are key words for wrestlers.

The hardest to break I think I leaving the arms out. Take the time to show a wrestlers he can get some offense off of his back instead of trying to make an example of him and he'll learn to change faster (personal opinion here of course) and see the back as okay. No quit...well, that's going to take a while too. It's learning to determine when it's good to hang in there that takes time and experience in BJJ.

[pittbullJudoka]

Keep rolling those habits tend to start fading over time. You'll become aware when you are about leave the arm behind. The not quitting comes in handy against a pure bjj guy, since they think of just holding a position( helps me a lot). Just keep rolling the transition will come.

[ShoriKid]

I knew I'd left an arm hanging the other night right before it got snagged tight. Just more mat time and more drilling to be done. All part of bjj and martial arts in general.