delete delete delete... ok, RELEARN!

[darksoul]

Since moving back to Montreal and joining the Shaolin Kempo club here, I've had to force myself to forget almost everything of what I had learned to adhere to the new versions of moves. Basically, what I had been taught at USSD is Shaolin Kempo from 20 years ago so now I'm relearning the same techniques, evolved.

Some are very close, some are barely recognizable.

Has anyone ever faced anything like this? Going from one dojo to another (in the same style) and seeing varying degrees of differences in moves? What's the best way to forget what your muscles have learned through years of training?

[sensei8]

Never forget what's useful, not even at the insistence of ones instructor(s)!!

Muscle memory is hard to retrain, but not impossible because we humans are very adaptable given any time to do so.

I can only suggest that you still maintain what's useful as well as what's new and useful. Time can change but to do so it will take some time.

Good luck!!

[darksoul]

Luckily, everything that's changed makes more sense. I feel that this style of Shaolin Kempo is much more refined and much more powerful than the style taught at USSD.

But yes... I just have to keep at it. Eventually my muscles will remember to more "this" way and not "that" way.

[Harkon72]

I have trained in three different styles of Karate, my teacher has never told me to empty the cup, just add to it and learn from it.

[Shizentai]

Has anyone ever faced anything like this? Going from one dojo to another (in the same style) and seeing varying degrees of differences in moves? What's the best way to forget what your muscles have learned through years of training?

YES! Oh my gosh! My sensei here in the states left Japan in 1960 to bring karate to the USA. So naturally, when I go to train with other members of the JKA in Japan, their techniques look totally different to me. In particular (and this is going to sound strange), when executing the same technique there is a discrepancy as to which direction the hips rotate. My sensei says in the same direction as the technique, Japanese JKA says opposite. It's an extremely basic thing to be so different, and it's maddening when your mind is trying to do both at once and you end up doing nothing right. Regarding that matter though, I think that more ways to do the same technique are just like having more weapons in your arsenal. I recommend you research bunkai of both new and old and keep them both well trained. Then in the future, it should be easy to switch back and forth.

I can only suggest that you still maintain what's useful as well as what's new and useful. Time can change but to do so it will take some time.

Ossu!

[evergrey]

Interesting! In my dojo, we use our hips like... cracking a whip. Snapping the hip on the side of the thrown strike forward, so the force continues up the body to the arm, and then pulling it back. It's very fast.

[Wastelander]

Interesting! In my dojo, we use our hips like... cracking a whip. Snapping the hip on the side of the thrown strike forward, so the force continues up the body to the arm, and then pulling it back. It's very fast.

I think Shizentai is referring to more circular strikes, such as shuto-uchi and tetsui-uchi. When executing those techniques you can either torque the hips into the technique as you describe, causing a whipping action, or you can torque the other way to pull the technique across in more of a swinging action. The difference is sort of like cracking a whip and swinging a bat (but not really) and I can understand where Shizentai is coming from on that. I actually do both, depending on the application I am looking for in my kata at any given moment. I have also had to relearn simple things like my neko-ashi-dachi and shuto-uke, but I switched from one style to another so that is to be expected.

[Harkon72]

We extend the hip more than I used to in Shotokan, our heel comes off the floor when we execute the reverse punch. Our belt moves 90 degrees with each techniques, yes the same, very fast. Relax and let it happen.

[darksoul]

In particular (and this is going to sound strange), when executing the same technique there is a discrepancy as to which direction the hips rotate. My sensei says in the same direction as the technique, Japanese JKA says opposite. It's an extremely basic thing to be so different, and it's maddening when your mind is trying to do both at once and you end up doing nothing right.

Tell me about it! While our hip movements haven't changed, just directions of strikes in Kata's, extra movements in techniques, less movements in other techniques... even the bow is different!

I'm getting it though.

I have trained in three different styles of Karate, my teacher has never told me to empty the cup, just add to it and learn from it.

There's no emptying the cup... just putting in real beer where there previously was Budweiser.

[Harkon72]

Yes, Hobgoblin Ale is a great improvement!