Transition from Shotokan to Kyokushin

[Kuma]

kilos him have a different aproach ,the body conditioning requierd for their type of kumite is very demanding as in their kumite you have to be able to stand up toe to toe and exchanges blows with your opponent until one drops , quite different from shotokan concept teaches you to avoid getting hit and finish the fight with one blow .

Though there are some fighters that prefer the toe to toe style the goal remains the same as Shotokan - end the fight as quickly as possible. In my opinion the Kyokushin method is superior though as you learn it's really not that easy to stop someone with one blow. Mas Oyama the founder trained in Shotokan but found the kumite unrealistic hence why he developed jissen kumite and Kyokushin.

[Harkon72]

I changed from Shotokan to Shukokai. It was not just the basics that were different, it was the mindset behind the karate. I found Shukokai to be more fluid, it had faster movement of the hip and a more modern scientific reasoning behind the mechanics of each technique. I struggled to adapt at the start, but now my Gyaku Zuki flies into the pad! Osu!

[pers]

kilos him have a different aproach ,the body conditioning requierd for their type of kumite is very demanding as in their kumite you have to be able to stand up toe to toe and exchanges blows with your opponent until one drops , quite different from shotokan concept teaches you to avoid getting hit and finish the fight with one blow .

Though there are some fighters that prefer the toe to toe style the goal remains the same as Shotokan - end the fight as quickly as possible. In my opinion the Kyokushin method is superior though as you learn it's really not that easy to stop someone with one blow. Mas Oyama the founder trained in Shotokan but found the kumite unrealistic hence why he developed jissen kumite and Kyokushin.

Superior in what way ? ..........so shotokan kumite is unrealistic but kyukoshin is realistic ?

what is realistic about two fighters facing each other in a stationary stance and taking lumps out of each other with body blows with no punches allowed to the face ,do you fight like that in the street too ?!

there are many examples of shotokan kumite from JKA available on youtube ,where its dynamism and fluidity with speed and power are displayed in its best ,very realistic in my opinion ...much more than lets stand and beat each other up in the body and see who can last longer standing up .

[Harkon72]

I agree with you pers, stopping your opponent with a perfectly controlled Mwashi Geri to the face in Kumite takes much more skill than beating your opponent to a physical knockdown. Breaking your opponents Ki by focus and technique is far superior to uncontrolled attacks.

[pers]

I agree with you pers, stopping your opponent with a perfectly controlled Mwashi Geri to the face in Kumite takes much more skill than beating your opponent to a physical knockdown. Breaking your opponents Ki by focus and technique is far superior to uncontrolled attacks.

absolutely ... once you get old and your body starts getting frail it is only the technique that can help you against younger and physically stronger opponent ...

[evergrey]

Heh, in my dojo we learn footwork, evasion, blocking, movement, angles, circle and point theory, and we punch to the face. We just don't punch to the face in tournaments.

One punch, one kill was something that Mas Oyama did strive for, and was better at than most. That is why he got the nickname "godhand."

Let's not get into a "this style is superior to that style" argument please. :}

[Kuma]

Superior in what way ? ..........so shotokan kumite is unrealistic but kyukoshin is realistic ?

what is realistic about two fighters facing each other in a stationary stance and taking lumps out of each other with body blows with no punches allowed to the face ,do you fight like that in the street too ?!

there are many examples of shotokan kumite from JKA available on youtube ,where its dynamism and fluidity with speed and power are displayed in its best ,very realistic in my opinion ...much more than lets stand and beat each other up in the body and see who can last longer standing up .

There is more to jissen kumite than what you are describing. As for differences the Kyokushin method in my opinion is superior for a number of reasons. It is continuous fighting not start and stop when a point is scored. There is no penalty for excessive contact as it is full contact. Strikes to the legs are allowed. The goal is to stop the opponent so they can no longer continue to fight thus a very different objective and the kind of mindset one should have in case they need to protect themselves out of the dojo. The point fighting method you are describing leaves a lot to be desired.

[brickshooter]

I find the lack of sparring in my shotokan dojo disturbing. I don't feel like doing 1 step kumite drills for 1 more year while paying for belts and exams. According to our curriculum we do Jiyu kumite only after 2nd Kyu and even then its light point sparring.

Really if I spend all this time training I would like to practice them in a mean other than thin air. Don't get me wrong I respect the art but I would like more aliveness in the dojo.

There are few decent looking kyokushin dojos in Athens so I'll be looking to do some tryouts starting from the closest one.

As I currently have 6th Kyu in shotokan do you think it will take me lots of time to reach the equivalent grade?

The biggest challenge isn't techinque or muscle memory as you're not trained long enough in Shoto to permanently lock techniques into your muscle memory.

IMO, the biggest challenge is whether you're physical enough for Kyokushin. You need to raise your aerobics conditioning. And you probably want to add some muscle mass. Or if you don't, they'll add those things for you.

For all the talks of this school versus that school. In the overall scheme of things, there's not that much of a difference. Kyokushin just emphasize ALOT more kumite than the other schools... and the body conditioning that comes is needed to remain healthy.

Just my 2 cents.

Have fun.

[pers]

Superior in what way ? ..........so shotokan kumite is unrealistic but kyukoshin is realistic ?

what is realistic about two fighters facing each other in a stationary stance and taking lumps out of each other with body blows with no punches allowed to the face ,do you fight like that in the street too ?!

there are many examples of shotokan kumite from JKA available on youtube ,where its dynamism and fluidity with speed and power are displayed in its best ,very realistic in my opinion ...much more than lets stand and beat each other up in the body and see who can last longer standing up .

There is more to jissen kumite than what you are describing. As for differences the Kyokushin method in my opinion is superior for a number of reasons. It is continuous fighting not start and stop when a point is scored. There is no penalty for excessive contact as it is full contact. Strikes to the legs are allowed. The goal is to stop the opponent so they can no longer continue to fight thus a very different objective and the kind of mindset one should have in case they need to protect themselves out of the dojo. The point fighting method you are describing leaves a lot to be desired.

Please enlighten us with what more there is into jissen kumite and the number of reasons that make it superior .

If you just say becuase I tell you so then we leave the discussion but care to give your reasons without generilising and brushing off shotokan kumite is tap scoring ...I am sure there are many karate schools who do fight like that with a just a light touch and point scored but please don't paint all with the same brush .

for example many years ago our sensei kicked out a purple belt who was an idiot and a bully and a year later he opened a club and start teaching shotokan as a second dan ! is that shotokan's fault or does it make shotokan a poor school of karate ?

I did mention in my original post that all styles are equally good and have benefits of their own ,it is about a particular school and instructor and their qualities NOT the style they are teaching .....until you claimed about kyukoshin being superior and I had to call you out on that .

The quality and effectiveness of shotokan technique and their fighting methods are well known and documented ...it is the result of lots of panistaking basics ,the reasons for controling the techniques are obvious in training ,if there is not control on how much contact you make then after a while there be no one left to train with .

I would know if I am hit with a controlled but fast and furious technique that a couple of more inches it would have had a devastating effect on me .

I am absolutely positive and sure that kyokoshin karate is a respectable school of karate and I have read many stories about its founder mas Oyama , I was just trying to point out the different aproach between the two school for a relatively new practitioner who is a 6th kyu in shotokan and is in the same frustrating stage of his training that I was once in ...

it is the stage that you just want to learn to run before you have developed your muscles to walk properly and I was trying to point that out to him plus a brief description of different methods of the two school .

Kyukoshin is more about strenght and developement of tough body to be able to take heavy punishment while shotokan emphasises on developing pure technique and analysing what happens during the execution of technique ,how to move from A to B effiecently .

I would not call shotokan superior to any other school or kyukoshin but shotokan suits me and mybody and age these days , other people have other preferences .

Is this what you call light touch or tap scoring ? if so the ones on the recieving end must be really good actors to mimick being knocked out by a devastating technique !

[Kuma]

Please enlighten us with what more there is into jissen kumite and the number of reasons that make it superior .

If you just say becuase I tell you so then we leave the discussion but care to give your reasons without generilising and brushing off shotokan kumite is tap scoring ...I am sure there are many karate schools who do fight like that with a just a light touch and point scored but please don't paint all with the same brush .

In that same post I did. I also stated it was my own opinion, much like your opinion is your own. If you don't want somebody painting with the same brush you really shouldn't do it first, should you?

The quality and effectiveness of shotokan technique and their fighting methods are well known and documented ...it is the result of lots of panistaking basics ,the reasons for controling the techniques are obvious in training ,if there is not control on how much contact you make then after a while there be no one left to train with.

This probably goes for all martial arts.

I would know if I am hit with a controlled but fast and furious technique that a couple of more inches it would have had a devastating effect on me .

You may be surprised. I've trained with karateka who look great doing this type of sparring yet once it becomes continuous they don't look quite as good nor hit that hard.

Is this what you call light touch or tap scoring ? if so the ones on the recieving end must be really good actors to mimick being knocked out by a devastating technique !

Aside from the fact that this kind of sparring is far removed from actual fighting it also encourages some bad habits. Sacrificing mechanics just for the sake of a technique to land (e.g. 0:38 where the rear leg lifts up in the air as the karateka punches, sacrificing power for speed and range). Turning away from your opponent after you think you scored a point. Believing one blow is all you need to stop a determined opponent. Not counting a technique as effective just based on appearances alone and not the effect it has on the opponent. Training to stop a blow before impact and assuming you can go all the way when need be. And to be honest I saw very few actual KOs in this.

Is the Kyokushin method of kumite real fighting? While it may not be the same as an actual fight it's a heck of a lot closer to reality than most karate sparring methods. That is why (in my opinion, as I have mentioned before) it is superior to this type of kumite.