how important is pad training and sparring to learn to fight

[judobrah]

i want some opinions in here,because honestly

i dont see how if someone practises some tehcniques,but doesnt get to use them in some sort of scenario(not drills with litle or semi resistance) that person will be able to apply what he learned in a real fight(self defense) in most of the times

its kinda like this,how could i really learn to throw someone if i wont practise that tehcnique in sparring,and just practise it in an oponent that isnt resisting?

i might be able to pull it off in a real situation,but if i have no real practise i will be in shock if it doesnt work

so yeah,how important is heavy bag/pad training and sparring to really learn to defend yourself?

because i have a hard time understanding,its kinda like this,if you go to a karate dojo,and they teach you techniques,kicks,punches

but they dont let you spar(or they make you do sparring with litle resistance) or at least practise your tecnhiques in some sort of target,you will be in shock when someone punches you full force in a real fight,and its trying to harm you

isnt because of this that arts like taekwondo,aikido,karate(some styles) have a bad reputation in combat sports/mma?

but arts when the students usually spar,like kyokushin,judo,muay thai,are usually praised because they are effective?

anyway,today one of my parents talked to a 52 year old man,and they were discussing this subject,because my parent knows that i am usualyl interested in martial arts(i have practised them before obviously),and when she said that i was looking for a place with more contact,and that i did karate before

he said that back in this time,it wasnt like it is today,he is a judo and shotokan black belt,and he went talking about how in his days they trained and fight very hard,and that it was very dangerous training,in a way that you were so well trained,you could really seriously hurt someone in a real fight,but in this days,the schools arent the same anymore,and the students arent prepared for that?

so how important,sparring,contact,pad and heavy bag training e.t.c really his?

[SamsIAmz]

You are going to get mixed replies from everyone.

My personal opinion is that practicing strikes on real targets is important. Getting used to being hit is also important. However, you don't need to be sparring full contact to learn these things. It perfectly okay to spend the first few years of training doing just technique. Funakoshi, the founder of modern day karate, felt that all you needed was kata practice. There are accounts of him defending himself, and his students defending themselves against formidable opponents. That being said, Funakoshi would practice with a makiwara, and felt that it was important to condition one's striking tools (i.e. hands, feet, elbows, etc.).

Anyway, while yes striking is important, if you are young don't worry too much about it. Being over eager and doing too much bag work, or other type of striking practice when you are young can damage your bones.

To me, karate is kata. I no longer live near a dojo or any other karate school. So I pratice kata. I do it in the morning, in the evening, and at night. I repeat individual moves, get creative with friends to come up with effective interpretations of the movements within the kata, and I practice with power in the movements. I love kata, and I really can't say how much I've learned from kata.

Kata is a very misunderstood practice, even by many of those who do practice it. I'm just starting to grasp it.

[Groinstrike]

VERY!!!

Focus pads will help you put together combinations and sparring will get you used to the idea of getting hit.

Learning how to fight is a long process if it is to be done well. Focused sparring can be a great tool if it is done right. Blindly swinging hooks at each other has its place, you just don't learn much from doing it.

[RW]

They are not very important.

They are essential!!!

You must get used to the sentation of your fists/feet hitting a target. You also need to develop KO power. Punching or kicking really fast/hard in a kata will give you power, but it needs to be complemented with the power that comes from hitting pads and heavy bags... they will make your strikes carry some"weight' to them.

As for sparring... you need to develop reaction times and reflexes. Someone who has never sparred also sometimes "'freezes" and gets nervous... now imagine if it was a real fight!

2) Sadly, sport karate has in my opinion, done a dis-service to karate as a self-defense form.

Point sparring had the right idea (practice strikes without hitting as hard as to make your opponent go to work with a black eye tomorrow, provide some protection -padding, helmets, etc), but people began exploiting points on its ruleset meant to protect the fighters, not making it some sort of game.

Ever heard of "blitzing"? :

It is exploiting the fact that you cannot hit an opponent in the face, the fact that fights are broken after a point is scored and the fighters' position are re-set and the fact that it doesn't matter if a hit is not stronger than a light tap in order to be considered a point. It's quite effective in point sparring... but show me someone who'd try that in a real fight and I'll show you someone I'd like to sell them a philosopher's stone

And that (blitzing) is just one example of the things people are doing that IMO spoiled point sparring.

[judobrah]

They are not very important.

They are essential!!!

You must get used to the sentation of your fists/feet hitting a target. You also need to develop KO power. Punching or kicking really fast/hard in a kata will give you power, but it needs to be complemented with the power that comes from hitting pads and heavy bags... they will make your strikes carry some"weight' to them.

As for sparring... you need to develop reaction times and reflexes. Someone who has never sparred also sometimes "'freezes" and gets nervous... now imagine if it was a real fight!

2) Sadly, sport karate has in my opinion, done a dis-service to karate as a self-defense form.

Point sparring had the right idea (practice strikes without hitting as hard as to make your opponent go to work with a black eye tomorrow, provide some protection -padding, helmets, etc), but people began exploiting points on its ruleset meant to protect the fighters, not making it some sort of game.

Ever heard of "blitzing"? :

It is exploiting the fact that you cannot hit an opponent in the face, the fact that fights are broken after a point is scored and the fighters' position are re-set and the fact that it doesn't matter if a hit is not stronger than a light tap in order to be considered a point. It's quite effective in point sparring... but show me someone who'd try that in a real fight and I'll show you someone I'd like to sell them a philosopher's stone

And that (blitzing) is just one example of the things people are doing that IMO spoiled point sparring.

yeah,there are so much bad dojos out there its not even funny,that people wonder why people diss out karate,most martial arts like taekwondo,karate have become a complete joke(i am just a teen,but you dont need to be that smart to realize that 5 year olds shouldnt be getting black belts,and that you wont learn to defend yourself by doing a bunch of katas and some very light sparring)

but yeah,there is a lot of hate,by the combat sports/mma community,and i dont judge them

i have visited some taekwondo forum,and some of the guys(the majority),think that they should try to headkick an oponnent in a street figther,since they wont espect it

this just makes me consider going to that place when they teach karate more,the fact that there is no sparring,contact or pads makes me concerned,i guess i can always punch the bag at home......

thats one more of the reasons,that i want to do kyokushin

to bad i wont be able to do it for at least 5 or 6 more years

[tallgeese]

Indispensable. Here's my thoughts on the matter:

http://www.karateforums.com/focus-mitt-training-for-the-multi-disciplined-fighter-vt34351.html

[evergrey]

About as important as it is to use a flight simulator, and eventually practice flying in a real plane, to learn how to be good at flying.

You can read books to help you learn about it, and you NEED to in order to learn what has to be done... but nothing replaces using the instruments and getting a feel for flight itself.

In karate, you NEED to practice basics. Kata? Well, that's debatable (Kyokushin does have kata though!) But basics, yes.

Only kihon and kata will not make you a great fighter though. You have to do kumite for that to happen.

Pad and bag work are very useful too, and a great step... but there's a certain timing and feel you can only learn from actually sparring.

[ninjanurse]

i have visited some taekwondo forum,and some of the guys(the majority),think that they should try to headkick an oponnent in a street figther,since they wont espect it

I teach my TKD students that kicking high (to the head) is not practical nor is it smart to expose yourself in such a manner during a fight. We practice high kicking on pads/bags to develop balance, flexibility, and strength which complements all striking & kicking. I also think there is a place for both styles of sparring (point or full contact) as each develops different aspects of power and control that just kicking pads does not.

[judobrah]

i have visited some taekwondo forum,and some of the guys(the majority),think that they should try to headkick an oponnent in a street figther,since they wont espect it

I teach my TKD students that kicking high (to the head) is not practical nor is it smart to expose yourself in such a manner during a fight. We practice high kicking on pads/bags to develop balance, flexibility, and strength which complements all striking & kicking. I also think there is a place for both styles of sparring (point or full contact) as each develops different aspects of power and control that just kicking pads does not.

yeah man,you seem like a good teacher

to bad there still his tons of mcdojos around,because you know,you never know when you will need to throw a 360 in a real fight

but yeah,i agree for shure,high kicks give you great flexibility and condition in your legs

would you agree that a round kick to the head is one of the few high kicks that can be efficient in real figths if they are trained right,it seems that this kicks work in a lot of combat sports

[evergrey]

Here's an exercise for you, Judobrah, once you start training in kicks. I am pretty sure Shotokan also has kicks in 4 parts- chamber, extend, re-chamber, place. Up, out, back, and down. Try doing it slowly. Very slowly. While retaining your balance. How high can you kick when you do it so slowly that it lasts at least 10 seconds? That's how high you can kick with complete control and access to all the force multipliers you need. Flexibility and speed are two components to a kick, but there is also the force of your body behind it, your strength, your control, and your focus. If you do not have access to the last four things, you are simply throwing your leg out there. It's likely not going to be powerful enough to knock someone out.

But of course we only kick to the head in tournaments, lol. Not out in the street. Having law enforcement officers as instructors means we get some good perspective about what actually does and does not work when fighting to defend one's self.

OSU!