Too many associations???

[muttley]

I can't believe how many different Shotokan associations there are now in the UK.

When I first started training, I am pretty sure there were only the JKA, KUGB and maybe the EKGB. This I thought was enough, however now there are all kinds of different associations, NAKMAS, ESKA, JSKA, BSKA....are these all really necessary?

I remember when NAKMAS first set up, someone from KUGB came and spoke with myself and a colleague about them purely as they were having some quite major concerns about the associations credentials etc, especially considering the origins of this "National" association are rooted in a sleepy seaside location in Kent!

Having been to a few NAKMAS clubs in my search for a new club, I was alerted to the sheer number of junior black belts they have, being that I saw an unusual number of black belts aged around 9 years old, I started to ask myself what exactly was being taught, how can a 9 year old really understand what it means to be a black belt? I became even more alarmed when I went to a club once as a returning black belt to Shotokan after many years out to be told "Give us a month or 2 of training you and you will be taking your own lessons and looking to set up your own club".

These "McDojo's" are, in my opinion killing off the tradition of Karate and it disappoints me that they continue to grow. I have seen clubs run by so called "sensei's" who just seem to want to bully the juniors into doing things their way rather than letting the student discover the art for themselves, it seems that they have a set time frame for students to get from 1st kyu to 1st dan as if they then earn more money out of it.

Why can't clubs be run the way they used to be when I first started Karate 30 years ago where you rocked up at your local club and pay when you arrive rather than students having to commit to paying £X each month by direct debit and if you don't train, you lose out financially?

Is money ruining our art? Unfortunately, I fear it is.

[darksoul]

I'm lucky with Shaolin Kempo, there really isn't that many groups. You've got the Villari guys, the USSD guys, the ZUltimate guys, and We Love Kempo guys.

Even in Canada we only have about 30-50 total black belts cross-country.

[Reaper6]

Off topic, but I used to live right next door to a Villari school. Which assn. are you with?

[Dobbersky]

It's all politics and money in the right pot.

I've discussed this many times but now, my answer is;

Every school will gave students who want whatever that school offers. We won't change the world, so train as best as you can and if possible when you have the converted black belt, maybe open a school teaching old school martial arts. Then the more old school clubs will begin to overtake the "McDojos"

OSU

[Harkon72]

I totally agree, we have a local McDojo in town. Expensive and cheap. Our club seems to take disappointed students from them, and they look very nervous when they are asked to demonstrate what they have learned.

[darksoul]

Off topic, but I used to live right next door to a Villari school. Which assn. are you with?

Off-shoot of Villari. I started with United Studios of Self Defense under Kevin McAllister and Master Richard Black, both of which were trained by Professor Charley Mattera. USSD kind of stagnated though. They haven't evolved like the Villari tree did. My current master is Master Claude Paquette (7th Dan) who was trained by Thomas Ingargiola.

I was awarded Shodan by Master Andy Chryssolor (USSD) and (hopefully) will be awared Nidan by Master Claude Paquette when he finds me ready (I'm really not in a hurry.)

I've got an interesting lineage

So now I believe my association is Kempo Jutsu-Kai International.

[Reaper6]

Off topic, but I used to live right next door to a Villari school. Which assn. are you with?

Off-shoot of Villari. I started with United Studios of Self Defense under Kevin McAllister and Master Richard Black, both of which were trained by Professor Charley Mattera. USSD kind of stagnated though. They haven't evolved like the Villari tree did. My current master is Master Claude Paquette (7th Dan) who was trained by Thomas Ingargiola.

I was awarded Shodan by Master Andy Chryssolor (USSD) and (hopefully) will be awared Nidan by Master Claude Paquette when he finds me ready (I'm really not in a hurry.)

I've got an interesting lineage

So now I believe my association is Kempo Jutsu-Kai International.

Thanks, when you're ready, I hope you make it! Speaking of differeing associations, look at Kyokushin after the death of Mas Oyama. It has more splinters than a saw mill!

[wagnerk]

when I first started training, I am pretty sure there were only the JKA, KUGB and maybe the EKGB. This I thought was enough, however now there are all kinds of different associations, NAKMAS, ESKA, JSKA, BSKA....are these all really necessary?

Depends, I've trained with a few different Shotokan clubs and associations and from what I've gleemed from them it really is due to costs and politics.

Eg. One association that I trained with decided to move from one governing body to another due to the membership dues that he had to pay. With another association a whole group of senior (now ex) JKA karate-ka's left due to the way the JKA was managed after the death of Enoeda Sensei.

The question is can you live & train with something you don't believe in (or afford) or not. If not, then you have to do something about it.

I remember when NAKMAS first set up, someone from KUGB came and spoke with myself and a colleague about them purely as they were having some quite major concerns about the associations credentials etc, especially considering the origins of this "National" association are rooted in a sleepy seaside location in Kent!

Having been to a few NAKMAS clubs in my search for a new club, I was alerted to the sheer number of junior black belts they have, being that I saw an unusual number of black belts aged around 9 years old, I started to ask myself what exactly was being taught, how can a 9 year old really understand what it means to be a black belt? I became even more alarmed when I went to a club once as a returning black belt to Shotokan after many years out to be told "Give us a month or 2 of training you and you will be taking your own lessons and looking to set up your own club".

NAKMAS, while they server a purpose, isn't a pure shotokan governing body or association - they are a generic martial arts governing body; offering things like insurance, policies, a black belt register, certificate templates, etc. To my knowledge, individual clubs are left to run how they want to run.

These "McDojo's" are, in my opinion killing off the tradition of Karate and it disappoints me that they continue to grow. I have seen clubs run by so called "sensei's" who just seem to want to bully the juniors into doing things their way rather than letting the student discover the art for themselves, it seems that they have a set time frame for students to get from 1st kyu to 1st dan as if they then earn more money out of it.

It would be unfair to label all clubs that are associated to non-specific MA governing bodies as McDojo's, however there are quiet a few McDojo's out there (yes, I've seen a few).

Why can't clubs be run the way they used to be when I first started Karate 30 years ago where you rocked up at your local club and pay when you arrive rather than students having to commit to paying £X each month by direct debit and if you don't train, you lose out financially?

Is money ruining our art? Unfortunately, I fear it is.

There are good and bad things from both yesteryear and today. I do not believe that running a club like it was 30 odd years ago would survive today - there has to have/be a happy medium that focuses on quality, yet allows the instructor to earn from his/her trade (after all while a part-time instructor may teach for the love - there are bills to pay and the full-time instructor needs to eat).