Rank for life

[sensei8]

I think once you earn a black belt that you're always a black belt. No one can take that away from you.

True. However, Dan rank can be taken away. Well, it can if you're a Dan holder from Shindokan. A Godan, for example, can be reduced to a Yondan if said individual didn't successfully pass their PIP (Personal Improvement Plan) as prescribed by our Hombu, after any said practitioner was found to have violated any given rule/policies.

[DWx]

Is a blackbelt something you have or is it something you are?

[Harkon72]

You can be a Dan grade at white belt.

[sensei8]

Is a blackbelt something you have or is it something you are?

In a nomenclature kind of sense, it can be both. I have a black belt because I am a black belt....OR...I'm a black belt because I have a black belt.

Either you are or you are not!! Walking on the floor with your black belt tells all that you're a black belt at first impressions, but, the truth is quickly discovered that while you're wearing a black belt, your level of experience doesn't match to the advertisement wrapped around your waist. However, it can also be discovered that you're wearing a black belt and your experience does match to the advertisement around your waist; in that, you are a black belt through and through. Heart can't be denied; experience truly comes from the heart.

Did you pay $5 for a black belt at the local MA supply store, or did you pay for your black belt through many years of shedding your blood, sweat, and tears!!

True black belts can't be denied, however, false black belts are denied.

[CredoTe]

Once a rank is earned in a certain style, it should be acknowledged. Yes, when someone lacks in their training for any period of time, they shouldn't receive promotion just because time-in dictates. For example, if before-mentioned hypothetical shodan lambs it for 5 or 10 or whatever years, then, when they restart training in the same art (if starting back in a different art, it's white belt for them), they do not get promoted to nidan until their skill level and time-in prerequisites are met.

Is a blackbelt something you have or is it something you are?

In a nomenclature kind of sense, it can be both. I have a black belt because I am a black belt....OR...I'm a black belt because I have a black belt.

Either you are or you are not!! Walking on the floor with your black belt tells all that you're a black belt at first impressions, but, the truth is quickly discovered that while you're wearing a black belt, your level of experience doesn't match to the advertisement wrapped around your waist. However, it can also be discovered that you're wearing a black belt and your experience does match to the advertisement around your waist; in that, you are a black belt through and through. Heart can't be denied; experience truly comes from the heart.

Did you pay $5 for a black belt at the local MA supply store, or did you pay for your black belt through many years of shedding your blood, sweat, and tears!!

True black belts can't be denied, however, false black belts are denied.

Great post! Your wisdom in your last sentence is very solid. Except, McDojos promote "false black belts" all the time... But, then again, that goes to the heart of DWx's question: are they really "black belts"?

[bushido_man96]

Good question.

I'm of the opinion that once you earn it, it's yours. You did the work. No one can take that away from you. There are so many intangibles involved in the ma's that it's hard to quantify them based solely on mat performance.

Sure, they are perishable skills. You won't have the skills you did if you stop for 5 years. But you've got all that time under you. Not recognizing that is a bit disrespectful. Sure, you'll have to spend some time picking them back up if you want to train seriously again, but the qualifier of "I've been off for five years" should be enough of an explanation.

This is certainly true if you're studying another art. Martial progress is martial progress. There's only different methods.

This is well put, and I agree. Experience is hard to replace, and that's what all that time in gives a practitioner. Its true that some have better experience than others, and some have different experience. But, its all pretty valuable.

I think what we will run into in this discussion is some semantics issues. Some schools, organizations, or instructors will not recognize some ranks after so much time out has been lost. For example, if a first dan leaves for a period of years and then returns, that person may have to start again from white belt, depending on how well they have retained the information. But, not all schools are this way, and some would be more than willing to let the person returning get back into the flow.

In such cases, its important to not worry so much about the rank that is shown on our waist, but the knowledge and experiences that we have rattling around in our heads that should help to keep us focused on where we are in our training, what we know, and what we have yet to learn.

[bushido_man96]

I think once you earn a black belt that you're always a black belt. No one can take that away from you.

But what if you hadn't trained in 15 odd years?

Let's put it this way: you begin your MA training under an instructor, who let's say is a 5th degree black belt. He has to move, retire, and falls out of training, due to whatever life throws at us. Would you not respect him as your instructor throughout the rest of your life? Would you tell him that you now out rank him, and no longer respect the knowledge and experiences he passed on to you as his student? Or, do would you still look at him as that 5th degree black belt that took you under his tutelage all those years ago?

[CredoTe]

I think once you earn a black belt that you're always a black belt. No one can take that away from you.

But what if you hadn't trained in 15 odd years?

Let's put it this way: you begin your MA training under an instructor, who let's say is a 5th degree black belt. He has to move, retire, and falls out of training, due to whatever life throws at us. Would you not respect him as your instructor throughout the rest of your life? Would you tell him that you now out rank him, and no longer respect the knowledge and experiences he passed on to you as his student? Or, do would you still look at him as that 5th degree black belt that took you under his tutelage all those years ago?

SPOT ON... Great post!

[ShotokanMaster]

In a Martial Arts once you earn your belt its yours no body can change it well me im a high orange belt in shotokan almost green belt when i go back to shotokan ill be high orange but will test for my greenbelt unless you move and start another karate class then you will be white belt depending if you start all over with diff style

[sensei8]

But, then again, that goes to the heart of DWx's question: are they really "black belts"?

NO!! Black belts of that type will struggle deeply against a kyu ranked student of the lowest level.