Rank for life

[DWx]

If someone who was a 1st dan completely stopped training for a period of ~5 years or more, are they still a 1st dan now? Or are they a former 1st dan?

What if they just started up in a different style? They were a TKD 1st dan but quit TKD and spent five years training in Shotokan (with no TKD practice), are they still a TKD blackbelt?

Is rank for life or just while you are actively training?

[tallgeese]

Good question.

I'm of the opinion that once you earn it, it's yours. You did the work. No one can take that away from you. There are so many intangibles involved in the ma's that it's hard to quantify them based solely on mat performance.

Sure, they are perishable skills. You won't have the skills you did if you stop for 5 years. But you've got all that time under you. Not recognizing that is a bit disrespectful. Sure, you'll have to spend some time picking them back up if you want to train seriously again, but the qualifier of "I've been off for five years" should be enough of an explanation.

This is certainly true if you're studying another art. Martial progress is martial progress. There's only different methods.

[darksoul]

Good question.

I'm of the opinion that once you earn it, it's yours. You did the work. No one can take that away from you. There are so many intangibles involved in the ma's that it's hard to quantify them based solely on mat performance.

Sure, they are perishable skills. You won't have the skills you did if you stop for 5 years. But you've got all that time under you. Not recognizing that is a bit disrespectful. Sure, you'll have to spend some time picking them back up if you want to train seriously again, but the qualifier of "I've been off for five years" should be enough of an explanation.

This is certainly true if you're studying another art. Martial progress is martial progress. There's only different methods.

I completely agree with this

[Evil Dave]

I've just started to take some time of my martial arts for personal and club politic reasons. I fully intend to always have my rank, but expect to be wearing my BB and standing at the back of the class when I do return. Although I may look into a different form or martial arts, then I'll be in the back of the class with a white belt...

[blacknebula]

I'm of the opinion that once you earn it, it's yours. You did the work. No one can take that away from you.

I concur. I graduated from university with an engineering degree. I jumped through all the hoops to get my professional engineer status and worked for over a decade before 'retiring' in order to stay home with my children. And I still proudly wear my iron ring! Not that different a scenario from a BB, methinks.

[JohnASE]

I agree with the rank-for-lifers, but I'd like to add that I've heard of something which I believe was called Shodan-ho. This was described to me as a probationary 1st degree black belt. It was awarded to you upon completion of the test, but you had to meet other criteria before you became a full Shodan. I don't remember what that was. It might have been just continuing your training, or maybe it was teaching some classes. If you didn't meet these criteria, I'm not sure, but I think your rank reverted to 1st Kyu.

[Kuma]

I agree as well. I served in the US Marine Corps and still consider myself a Marine now and forever. Same thing with a 1st dan ranking in my eyes.

[darksoul]

I agree with the rank-for-lifers, but I'd like to add that I've heard of something which I believe was called Shodan-ho. This was described to me as a probationary 1st degree black belt. It was awarded to you upon completion of the test, but you had to meet other criteria before you became a full Shodan. I don't remember what that was. It might have been just continuing your training, or maybe it was teaching some classes. If you didn't meet these criteria, I'm not sure, but I think your rank reverted to 1st Kyu.

Yeah, we were talking about that "black belt THEN first dan" thing in another thread. I think it's weird. In Shaolin Kempo, Black Belt = 1st Dan.

[DWx]

Great answers so far. TBH I'm of the opinion that yes you are still a blackbelt but as far as I'm concerned you're a "non-active" blackbelt. If you came back training you could be reinstated.

To me, if you can no longer demonstrate the physical skills of a blackbelt and you can't remember things such as the kata or terminology and you couldn't sufficiently explain a technique or principle to someone else, then you aren't an active blackbelt anymore.

I concur. I graduated from university with an engineering degree. I jumped through all the hoops to get my professional engineer status and worked for over a decade before 'retiring' in order to stay home with my children. And I still proudly wear my iron ring! Not that different a scenario from a BB, methinks.

Its a good analogy however for some professional qualifications you have to show that you remain up-to-date with things and are maintaining your skill level. For example, my mother's a chemistry graduate but because she hasn't been in the lab for 25+ years and hasn't had any training since graduating, no-one in their right mind would consider her for a lab position because she wouldn't be able to demonstrate competency. She has a chemistry degree but is not an active chemist. A blackbelt who hasn't been training and likewise wouldn't be shown to be competent would have to train to get back to that level.

[Chunmonchek]

I agree with the rank-for-lifers, but I'd like to add that I've heard of something which I believe was called Shodan-ho. This was described to me as a probationary 1st degree black belt. It was awarded to you upon completion of the test, but you had to meet other criteria before you became a full Shodan. I don't remember what that was. It might have been just continuing your training, or maybe it was teaching some classes. If you didn't meet these criteria, I'm not sure, but I think your rank reverted to 1st Kyu.

In my first Karate dojo, back in the early 70's, the class after my Sensei's then fiance tested for Shodan, she wore no obi and lined up at junior-most end of the line. Very wierd to me, as I was only 12 at the time, but I knew enough not to ask questions.

I later learned that Miss. Vicky was graded to Shodan-ho, and was required for a brief period to line up without an obi at the junior end of the line as a reminder of where she came from, as well as for an act of humility.

While we don't use the Shodan-ho, I understand why some people would, especially back in the early 70's when, IMHO, the "blackbelt" meant more.