Re-Chamber: Another Reason One Should Consider

[DWx]

....if you leave you hand on the mat, energy returns to it.. if you slap and quickly remove your hand (recoil), the energy is completely transferred into the target...

I'd think that is more about dictating that you are going to be moved by the returning energy than it is about moving your hand away before the arrows in the science class animation finish drawing. Action/reaction are instantaneous.

Rechambering.. redirects your energy back into a stable & balanced base and allows for faster "re"kick.

Some kicks rely on the recoil timed correctly to produce their maximum effect-such as hook kick, push kick, and turning kick.

For one, a "chambered" leg up position does not strike me as a "stable and balanced" position. If you want stable and balanced, put something else on the ground. Arguably, it is a "ready" position, just like your other stances. In that case the advice is just "make sure to return to a stance after you kick". In that case, i'm not completely clear why there is such a dispute about which stance to transition to after a technique.

Second - are you saying that a hook kick should include a moment where after making contact, you suddenly extend your leg straight away from and past the target? The recoil you were discussing before was not "retract" but "rebound", and the two are very different ideas.

I agree, recoil doesn't add to power. If anything, in some cases it will detract from the power you transfer if you start to pull the technique back before you've made proper contact. Impulse and reaction force are instantaneous things and happen at the point of impact, you can't add to them by pulling back.

Some kicks rely on the recoil timed correctly to produce their maximum effect-such as hook kick, push kick, and turning kick.

Contrary to this, my push kicks are an example of one of the kicks where I don't want to recoil. My push kicks (in comparison to striking kicks) are delivered with less impact at the point of contact, but more force over a distance. I am literally pushing the target. When I push a car or other heavy object, I don't smack it with my hands and watch it move, I have to drive with my legs and put my whole bodyweight behind it and sustain this over a distance. The same with my kicks.

[DoctorQui]

Some kicks rely on the recoil timed correctly to produce their maximum effect-such as hook kick, push kick, and turning kick.

Contrary to this, my push kicks are an example of one of the kicks where I don't want to recoil. My push kicks (in comparison to striking kicks) are delivered with less impact at the point of contact, but more force over a distance. I am literally pushing the target. When I push a car or other heavy object, I don't smack it with my hands and watch it move, I have to drive with my legs and put my whole bodyweight behind it and sustain this over a distance. The same with my kicks.

I agree, push kicks or 'power' maegeri kicks are among those where rechambering would retract from its purpose and reduce its impact. In addition, to rechamber such a kick on the basis that you are putting ALL of your strength into that kick so trying to pull back a kick that has power measuring close to your own body weight and accompanying power per square inch, would be an exercise in futility imo!

[bushido_man96]

....if you leave you hand on the mat, energy returns to it.. if you slap and quickly remove your hand (recoil), the energy is completely transferred into the target...

I'd think that is more about dictating that you are going to be moved by the returning energy than it is about moving your hand away before the arrows in the science class animation finish drawing. Action/reaction are instantaneous.

Rechambering.. redirects your energy back into a stable & balanced base and allows for faster "re"kick.

Some kicks rely on the recoil timed correctly to produce their maximum effect-such as hook kick, push kick, and turning kick.

For one, a "chambered" leg up position does not strike me as a "stable and balanced" position. If you want stable and balanced, put something else on the ground. Arguably, it is a "ready" position, just like your other stances. In that case the advice is just "make sure to return to a stance after you kick". In that case, i'm not completely clear why there is such a dispute about which stance to transition to after a technique.

Second - are you saying that a hook kick should include a moment where after making contact, you suddenly extend your leg straight away from and past the target? The recoil you were discussing before was not "retract" but "rebound", and the two are very different ideas.

I see both sides of what is going on here. In order to re-chamber kicks in styles like TKD and Karate, like a round kick, we have to consider slowing the momentum of the kick. Its the difference in kicking a target pad and re-chambering, and kicking the pad but following through with a spin.

Some of the kicks I do, like a spin heel kick, or straight leg crescent kicks, don't have a rechamber due to the nature of the kick, and the momentum in the leg; rechambering would be counter-productive to the kicks. But just from what I've seen of Capoeira, one kick tends to lead into another, and there is a lot of momentum built up with the spinning. There is no need to rechamber if you are setting down and going into another motion in those cases.

I don't know if the rechamber developed more over time in other MAs, or if its been around forever. In most of the kicks I've taught in TKD, I've taught to chamber, execute the kick, rechamber it, and return it to the ground. This method of teaching helps the students learn to control the kicks, and be controlled by them. Most beginners have trouble with balancing while kicking, and instead of setting the foot down, fall down with the foot, and thus end up in bad positioning for defense. Therefore, I teach to rechamber to the chamber position, and then control the foot down to go into the next move, whether landing and moving, or throwing another kick. In TKD, we tend to do a lot of same leg repeating kicks, so keeping that high chamber is beneficial.

We also have to consider the forms we do, and rechambering kicks is helpful in moving from one move to the next in a controlled manner. Setting the foot down instead of falling down helps to smooth out forms performance, and makes moving efficient.

This is something that will vary greatly between styles and methods of kicking, and there may not be a hard and fast rule that governs it. Maybe instead of looking at "rechambering" specifically, there is another more encompassing term that would coincide between the styles that refers to what we are discussing here.

[sensei8]

Shindokan speaking...

Attacking with either ones hands or feet repeatedly requires a re-chamber before the next attack begins. There must be a starting point as well as an ending point, and in that...

First kick reaches target, AND then re-chambers...that's the end of the first kick, AND THAT re-chamber IS the beginning of the second kick, and in that, the kicking foot doesn't have to return to the ground first.

My fist returning from the target is BOTH the END of the punch as well as the BEGINNING of the next and immediate te technique, and that is the re-chamber.

Most Karate uses a four count to every kick...Up, Out, Back, AND Down.