Your opinion doesn't matter unless you're a black belt

[FighterForLife]

Ah the age old "appeal to authority" argument.

Dealing with people who believe that only black belt's opinions matter is a lot like dealing with a bigot: nearly nothing you can say will convince them otherwise and you are best off not dealing with them at all if possible.

Sad to say, but this is the truth - many people get into the martial arts because of the ego stroking it gives them to be "teh d34dli3st" and as soon as that black fabric touches their ever-expanding waist, they immediately become martial elitists.

Just move along. Nothing you can do.

[CredoTe]

Ah the age old "appeal to authority" argument.

Dealing with people who believe that only black belt's opinions matter is a lot like dealing with a bigot: nearly nothing you can say will convince them otherwise and you are best off not dealing with them at all if possible.

Sad to say, but this is the truth - many people get into the martial arts because of the ego stroking it gives them to be "teh d34dli3st" and as soon as that black fabric touches their ever-expanding waist, they immediately become martial elitists.

Just move along. Nothing you can do.

Lol... Agreed...

[KyungYet]

I generally agree with the premise of this post and the more or less unanimous perspective of the posters: no one should ever feel ashamed to speak to a higher rank or that they do not "deserve" to be part of a conversation just because they aren't a black belt.

That being said - just for the sake of having a nice discussion on the matter - let me offer a less politically-correct thought. I am a college professor, and I frequently get in my end-of-term evaluations that students' favorite part of my class is getting to give their own opinion (which is nice. A little weird - that their favorite part of learning is them talking - but still nice). Sometimes I'll get something less nice, like "the professor acts as though his opinion is more valid than mine." I generally get good evals so I don't let these things bother me, but it does make me think: why would you want to take a class from someone whose opinion isn't more valid than yours? That is, I think students want to immediately be treated as equals (not in the sense of "I'm a reasonably intelligent adult human being, too!" - of course they are that), but for myself - if I took, say, a physics course - I would sincerely hope the professor knew more about physics than I did. This doesn't mean I wouldn't ever enter a conversation with them about force or planetary motion, but I would be hesitant to offer them advice on understanding string theory or somesuch.

So. To translate this into karate class: what kind of conversation are we having when an early-ranked student offers their thoughts? And how do they offer them? If we're talking about the interpretation of a form, or about sparring technique, the chances are that black belts actually will know more. They're supposed to! Right? Otherwise, what is there to look forward to, knowledge-wise, if an orange belt already knows as much as a black belt?

Remember please before you snap front-kick me in the cyberjewels that I really do act in class with politeness and encouragement to all that wish to engage with me, and that I generally agree with the thrust of all y'all's position. I suppose my great wisdom here (har har) is that it's going to depend on a) the student doing the opinion-giving; b) the conversation being entered; and c) how they're entering the conversation. Which is not really any wisdom at all, I know.

I guess I'm just thinking about how entitled students can sometimes be academically, but I don't run into this as much in the dojang - we have more rules governing conduct and mutual respect there than we do in the college classroom (which, in retrospect, is sad).

Your thoughts?

[bushido_man96]

I think you've made some valid points here. As an instructor, I try to keep an open mind when a student approaches me about something, and if I don't have the answer for them, I try to find the answer and get back to them. I love to talk Martial Arts with anyone, no matter what rank they hold, and you never know when a point might be made that makes you think.

[IcemanSK]

The is a story in a prominent MA magazine a few years back of an Hapkido master who learned a great lesson from a grandmaster. The master is known around the country as a good MAist. He wanted to learn from one of the most known grandmasters of the Art. Private lessons were expensive, but worth it, he figured. He drove the 6 hours to the GM's dojang, paying several hundred dollars in advance. He was alone in the dojang, so he stretched & warmed up with a few kicks before the grandmaster came out of his office to begin the lesson. As the master threw a side kick, the grandmaster pointed out what was wrong with his kick. The master, taken off guard, thinking the lesson hadn't started, responded, "I yeah, I know. It's never been my best technique." The GM said, "well, since you know that already, you don't need me," & it disappeared into his office. Lesson over.

The master was stunned. As he drove the 6 hours home, he was angry that he wasted his time. He thought of all the choice words he could use to describe this GM. "I really got screwed by this guy," he thought to himself. But the closer he got to home, he thought differently about this missed opportunity. The GM was right, he thought. "I came there to learn, but I was unwilling to when the lesson came," he realized.

The master got home & called the grandmaster & begged him to give him another chance. He did, & they've enjoyed a student/instructor relationship for more than 15 years.

Students do come to instructors for their knowledge & understanding of the Art. In most respects, it's not a democracy. If a master thinks that the student knows more than they do about the Art he/she is teaching, it's then that the master needs a new job.