Your opinion doesn't matter unless you're a black belt

[darksoul]

Hi guys,

So I've noticed this type of mentality in a lot of martial arts, and I, for one, think it's ridiculous. I believe that even at 4th Kyu, your knowledge of the martial arts is highly advanced and worthy of its place in discussions. Before reaching Shodan, I remember talking with black belts of other style and it usually went well until one of them asked "Which Dan are you?" to which (at the time) I replied "2nd kyu." Almost immediately their demeanor towards me changed and my opinion was invalid.

Now that I am Shodan, I want to make sure that this doesn't happen with me. To me - it doesn't matter whether you're Godan or 10th kyu. I don't care. You have an opinion as a practitioner of the martial arts and that opinion is valid.

What are your opinions on this?

[Wastelander]

I have noticed this as well, and even on forums like this one it makes me hesitant to participate in some discussions. I have noticed that during seminars black belts will inevitably only work with other black belts unless they can't help it, and that can carry over into the dojo as well. I am lucky that my dojo does not have this issue, but I have experienced it before. I understand that I do not (or should not) know as much, and I am not (or should not be) as skilled as black belt ranked students, and I am always respectful and defer to them when I have questions. That said, it is definitely frustrating when you are immediately discounted due to your rank.

[bushido_man96]

I've always liked asking lower ranking students if they see anything that looks like I need to work on. They kind of give you a funny look, but if I've done my job right, then they can probably tell me if my side kick looks a bit off.

Of course, care should be taken to ask meaningful questions, and to not be offensive if one can help it.

One of my former instructors had kind of an interesting tidbit on this kind of topic. His instructor is a 7th dan, and he just tested for 5th dan. He put this question to some of his students:

"Who would you rather learn applicable self-defense from; this gentleman, a 4th degree, who is a law enforcement officer that uses defensive techniques and tactics on a daily basis, and knows what does and does not work, and how to apply it, or from someone like me, who is a high ranking master, but with not nearly as much SD experience?"

Now, if you strip away that question, and advertise two different self-defense seminars; one taught by a 7th dan master, and one taught by a 4th degree, I'll bet my rank that with only that information given, the 7th degree will fill up faster and sooner. So much of what we see and do in the MAs is predicated on rank, and this what many people have come to expect. But, its important to take into account the experiences that come along with the rank, to see the clear picture.

I hope I didn't stay too far off topic, but what I'm getting at is the problem you mention, darksoul, isn't just in the kyu ranks. I think its possible to learn from anyone, at anytime; I think any of the parents around here can attest to this. I'm also sure that there are times when people who aren't knowledgeable tend to run off at the mouth, and don't realize how silly they sound trying to know something they don't, and perhaps some people think this will be the case, and will shut it down before it has a chance to start. But it isn't always the case, and I don't think listening would hurt too much.

To sum up; its a good thing to listen to feedback from kyu ranks, even if one is a high dan grade. Insight can come from anywhere.

[darksoul]

Insight can come from anywhere.

Exactly.

[evergrey]

A friend of mine made this handy guide to how GENERALLY uptight different ranks are about getting input from others, especially low ranks.

http://www.niceboots.org/~evergrey/Kyokushin/takingcomments.jpg

[DoctorQui]

Its all about sharing!

If you're in a Dojo where the experience and opinions are not on a two way street, you are simply going to learn parrot fashion and not be taught to look beyond the style and imo you won't grow!

Studying anything, including MA, means you should be encouraged to challenge and interpret by those you hold high.

End of!

[darksoul]

A friend of mine made this handy guide to how GENERALLY uptight different ranks are about getting input from others, especially low ranks.

http://www.niceboots.org/~evergrey/Kyokushin/takingcomments.jpg

This is AWESOME! hahaha...

I'd like to think I'm lower on the uptightness scale though

Its all about sharing!

If you're in a Dojo where the experience and opinions are not on a two way street, you are simply going to learn parrot fashion and not be taught to look beyond the style and imo you won't grow!

Studying anything, including MA, means you should be encouraged to challenge and interpret by those you hold high.

End of!

I completely agree.

[Sigung Chambers]

I have been in martial arts for over 20 years and still today I have learned things from white belts, either through my own thinking and reevaluating and or through another's personal view of things. If we fail to learn from any and all things then we become stail. If we learn we grow. I for one have great pleasure in learning. If I knew it all, then I would have never needed to enter a dojo in the 1st place.

[darksoul]

I have been in martial arts for over 20 years and still today I have learned things from white belts, either through my own thinking and reevaluating and or through another's personal view of things. If we fail to learn from any and all things then we become stail. If we learn we grow. I for one have great pleasure in learning. If I knew it all, then I would have never needed to enter a dojo in the 1st place.

Very well said

[Dobbersky]

Excellent Thread, Totally agree, I tend to be at the other end of the spectrum where I listen to comments etc on various things. Although one must take into account those Senior Ranking Instructors who think "How dare that Non-Black belt speak to me except through their instructor, let alone ask me a question on MY style!!!"

Evergrey, can you add that to Facebook I want to share it?

I will never be an "expert" always a student who's just been practicing a bit longer than others