Learning at home...

[madtanker]

I am beginning a course of study at home for Tang Soo Do and Hapkido. I know that there will be some challenges to the idea, and I know that it is more difficult than having someone show you exactly how to position, etc... but I am wondering if it is a terrible idea, or just one that may not work for everyone.

To background why I even coisndered this, I am almost completely self-taught (or with minimal supervision) in many aspects of the accomplishments that I have made. I obviously went through the protocol when it came to certifications and disciplines; however, I usually took the lead, and was able to do so effectively, even when I did not know from the start what I was doing. To summarize, I do learn well on my own (I earned a 4.0 in an accredited MBA program online).

Also I do have law-enforcement training including (unnamed) self defense and takedown techniques. I know the basic (horse, fighting, forward) stances and foot positionings, and how to take a fall.

The master of the dojo also informs me that he has 1) certified several competition level students (47 to date have made 1st dan in one or more styles from this method), and 2) I already (not even joined yet) have the person's home number, and support from their side that is almost unwavering.

Overall, I am wondering from those with experience, whether this will be possible, or whether I am just shooting myself in the foot!

[darksoul]

Training without an instructor is a BAAAAAAAAAAAAD idea.

I'd say check out this post for all the answers: chinese martial arts help PLEASE.

[Wastelander]

Being self-taught works well for a great number of things, but martial arts is not one of them. The problems you are going to face by trying to learn a martial art at home are numerous, but there are two primary issues:

-No supervision

-No feedback

If you have an instructor in front of you, watching what you do, they often make many adjustments every class to how you move and use your body. If you do not have that then you run the risk of developing bad habits that will impact the effectiveness of your training (it takes about 300-500 focused repetitions to develop muscle memory, but it takes about 3000-5000 repetitions to change that muscle memory). You also run the risk of seriously injuring yourself by doing techniques incorrectly--slight mistakes in how you pivot on your feet, how you throw your strikes or how you torque your body can potentially destroy your joints, for example.

What I mean by "feedback" is actual physical contact in your training. Without training partners you do not have anyone to work drills with or spar with. Without those things you will not be able to develop your techniques in a manner that is alive and will work for you when a person is actually in front of you and you need to use your training. Without training partners you will end up feeling lost when you actually try to apply the techniques you have been practicing, and you probably will not be able to make them work.

I don't want to discourage you from training, but I would discourage you from trying to learn on your own through any sort of distance learning program. They typically are out there only to take your money, and even when they are not they are not an effective or safe way to learn martial arts. If you want to learn Tang Soo Do, there are at least two places in Toledo, OH that teach it and I would recommend checking them out and learning there. If you want to learn martial arts, but are not set on a style (this is a better mindset) then I encourage you to check out all of the martial arts schools in your area, talk to the instructors and watch some classes and see what fits you best. When you have an actual school that you attend and train at regularly, then videos and distance learning programs and personal study can be of great benefit, but without training with partners under the watchful eye of skilled instructors they are a bad idea.

[madtanker]

Being self-taught works well for a great number of things, but martial arts is not one of them. The problems you are going to face by trying to learn a martial art at home are numerous, but there are two primary issues:

-No supervision

-No feedback

If you have an instructor in front of you, watching what you do, they often make many adjustments every class to how you move and use your body. If you do not have that then you run the risk of developing bad habits that will impact the effectiveness of your training (it takes about 300-500 focused repetitions to develop muscle memory, but it takes about 3000-5000 repetitions to change that muscle memory). You also run the risk of seriously injuring yourself by doing techniques incorrectly--slight mistakes in how you pivot on your feet, how you throw your strikes or how you torque your body can potentially destroy your joints, for example.

What I mean by "feedback" is actual physical contact in your training. Without training partners you do not have anyone to work drills with or spar with. Without those things you will not be able to develop your techniques in a manner that is alive and will work for you when a person is actually in front of you and you need to use your training. Without training partners you will end up feeling lost when you actually try to apply the techniques you have been practicing, and you probably will not be able to make them work.

I don't want to discourage you from training, but I would discourage you from trying to learn on your own through any sort of distance learning program. They typically are out there only to take your money, and even when they are not they are not an effective or safe way to learn martial arts. If you want to learn Tang Soo Do, there are at least two places in Toledo, OH that teach it and I would recommend checking them out and learning there. If you want to learn martial arts, but are not set on a style (this is a better mindset) then I encourage you to check out all of the martial arts schools in your area, talk to the instructors and watch some classes and see what fits you best. When you have an actual school that you attend and train at regularly, then videos and distance learning programs and personal study can be of great benefit, but without training with partners under the watchful eye of skilled instructors they are a bad idea.

Actually, this is why I posted this in the first place; I wanted feedback from those with either experience or training. I see that 1) you put a TON of thought into this, and 2) that you are dedicated to keeping me from a mistake. This I appreciate. I also appreciate the fundamental approach to the answer as well as the reasons for it! I would never be derrogatory to a person that took the kind of time that you did.

All the same, I will probably do some of this at home for a couple of reasons; self-pace, and the ability to 'test the waters'. It is not a matter of expense alone (I suffered a back injury and am trying to use something like MA to gain musculature and some rythmic muscle memory as well); however, it is a consideration. The tapes cost less than 2 months of lessons... so if I do not like it, I can walk away no hard feelings, and if I do, then (and this person did recommend additional hands-on after 1Dan) I can move to a school and relearn and master my techniques. I may have given a false impression; I do know some basics (stances, positioning etc) and kumite (hyung (sp..)) with full contact would be bad right now... I can throw a punch and take an hour with no loss... I am decidedly going to weigh your decision and it will have some influence on my overall training! Thank you again!

[darksoul]

and if I do, then (and this person did recommend additional hands-on after 1Dan) I can move to a school and relearn and master my techniques.

I just wanted to say that you may not be aware of one thing - relearning something properly after you've practiced it poorly is much more difficult than learning it the first time.

I know this from experience. I got my black belt from one Kempo school and then moved and got into a new dojo. Same style. I have to relearn nearly everything from white to black. They are not new techniques either. They are the same techniques I learned, done differently. Breaking the habits from my previous dojo is much, much, much harder than learning the techniques the first time.

Please keep this in mind.

[madtanker]

and if I do, then (and this person did recommend additional hands-on after 1Dan) I can move to a school and relearn and master my techniques.

I just wanted to say that you may not be aware of one thing - relearning something properly after you've practiced it poorly is much more difficult than learning it the first time.

I know this from experience. I got my black belt from one Kempo school and then moved and got into a new dojo. Same style. I have to relearn nearly everything from white to black. They are not new techniques either. They are the same techniques I learned, done differently. Breaking the habits from my previous dojo is much, much, much harder than learning the techniques the first time.

Please keep this in mind.

Definitely, this is something that I never thought of... and fodder for thought! Thank you for that! I kind of figured that if I followed carefully, and applied my (very limited) knowledge, I could translate... this does change things!

[JusticeZero]

yes, I have two students right now. One has no background in martial arts, save for a tiny amount of ballet as a child; the other has a substantial amount of experience in gongfu. (I am not teaching a chinese art.)

They both practice at home, and reportedly a relatively similar amount. The one with no martial arts background has progressed leaps and bounds past the gongfu stylist, with whom I am still continually trying to make quite basic form corrections.

I can still work with some of the habits from the gongfu, even if they are incorrect form in many ways. If the form was simply incorrect from top to bottom, we would be even slower on this process.

[MasterPain]

I fail to see how anyone expects to learn how to hit people without the benifit of having someone around to hit.

I say train wreck.

[shinka]

bad idea... cause like all masters will say...Bad base,bad martial arts.

No offense to home training but.... Even some masters can't show the basic stance and moves well..

I've trained in many styles before and they never told me, my stance was wrong, my wrist not straight enough etc... These simple little things mostly when you learn alone and can't see them by yourselves are a huge factor.

My teacher always says.... Martial art is like a tree. You start by learning the roots and build the trunk....After you learn technics to create some branches in leaves.... But without some good roots and trunk...your tree will die. So you have to always train your basic moves and stances.

So what i'm saying here is... a good master,teacher etc will correct those little things and make you start the right way. Soooooooo much better in the long term trust me (still paying for that myself).

Hope it helped.

[madtanker]

Update: As of now, I am in my 6th Gup (green belt) in Tang Soo Do, and am about to start my Hapkido training/testing this weekend. I feel stronger, faster, and definitely more knowledgeable. The sensei of the school is very interactive; he points out stance mistakes, form mistakes, and he has even fixed a problem that I learned from my LEO days (I used to fight with open hands, a design taught in the LEO training, but absolutely frowned upon during TSD). I also had to adjust to a front stance, something that I am not used to from other forms of training that I recieved. This was a good investment!