Instructor Who Lives An Alternate Lifestyle

[DWx]

To me, and I'm not wanting to sound like the biggot here, because I don't think of myself as a biggot, but depending on what the alternate lifestyle is, it might make a difference to me. If I found out the instructor was smoking dope, it would probably affect whether or not I attend that school. It would also affect if I sent my kids to the school; other things might come into play, as well. The same sex relationship thing, would just depend to me. If the instructor was trying to use the MA class to push their beliefs on the students, then I would probably consider not going there. If they did not do anything other than teach MAs, then I would probably not let it bother me.

It would just depend on the situation. I think its easy to say "to each their own," but I do have my core beliefs, morals and ethics, of what I believe is right or wrong, and if someone tried to push some different beliefs on my family in that respect, then I would take that into consideration in regards to attending or not.

That's why I asked for clarification on what type of alternate lifestyles we were talking about as its a pretty broad term. But largely, if its not impacting on their ability to teach and they are not harming me or anybody else (including pushing their beliefs onto anyone else), it doesn't bother me much.

[Shizentai]

The simple fact that being gay can be lumped in the same category as substance abuse makes me dislike the term "alternative lifestyle" even more.

There are several people in my dojo who are gay. They are all great people and happen to be excellent karateka to boot. One of my favorite things about karate is that the dojo has always been a constant safe-haven when life gets hard. Nothing matters there but training. Besides, I should think that kids growing up dealing with the fears of coming out as homosexual probably appreciate seeing a confident adult role-model who happens to also be a member of the gay community.

[Patrick]

Hey all,

I appreciate you starting this thread, Bob. There is a good and important discussion that can be had here and is already being had.

As a reminder, for this discussion to remain productive and in line with the KarateForums.com User Guidelines, it must adhere to certain principles. Namely, the discussion should center around the martial arts, martial arts instruction and how it affects training. It should not veer off into general political or religious discussion. In other words, it should preserve Bob's original direction.

For example, KarateForums.com is not the place to discuss these things:

- If homosexuality or heterosexuality or any sexual orientation is OK, not OK, hurts people, doesn't hurt people, is right, is wrong, is a choice, is not a choice, etc.

- If marijuana use or the use of any drug is OK, not OK, hurts people, doesn't hurt people, is right, is wrong, etc.

There are plenty of places where one can discuss these issues, but KarateForums.com is not it. It is definitely possible to have a serious discussion without these generic topics entering it and, as evidence of that, all of the posts above this one have done so.

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me via private message or email (patrick@ifroggy.com). In the interest of keeping this thread on topic, please do not post those questions on this thread.

Thank you for your time and understanding.

Sincerely,

Patrick

Edited August 18, 2012 by Patrick

[sensei8]

Thanks for the replies thus far, please keep them coming.

Thanks Patrick for your post, it was needed. I struggled in even posting this topic because I wasn't sure how it would be treated and/or received across the board. Again, thanks Patrick!!

I purposefully chose the wording..."Alternate Lifestyle" because I didn't want to have a focus on one type over another for one reason(s) or another. I wanted this topic to be taken seriously because according to ones perception, it can be a very serious matter, and one that shouldn't be taken lightly imho.

In the OP, I used careful wording as to not offend/upset anyone who might have read it, and therefore, might have hidden deep pain still within them for whatever reason(s).

Also, I used....Parent, Student, and Administrator. I'm all three. I'm a parent, and in that, I'm a parent of MAist, namely my daughter, Krystal. I'm a student, and have been for nearly 49 years. I'm an administrator within our Hombu. I choose only those three because I could relate to each and everyone of them both personally as well as professionally.

Again, please, as Patrick reminds us all, I want us all to focus around the MA, and in that, it's the MAist that practices the MA.

Let the discussion within the given parameters continue...and thank you all for your understandings.

Edited August 13, 2012 by sensei8

[darksoul]

All that matters in a dojo is the martial arts. I think that says it all.

[sensei8]

All that matters in a dojo is the martial arts. I think that says it all.

Respectfully I disagree. Why? In any dojo, imho, the MA is not all that matters because the MA is just a part of what's tangible within the dojo, albeit, the MA is the primary source of why any karateka is there.

Nonetheless, we're people and in that, we're so different. From the Sensei to the Sempai to the Kohai to the parents, and to the occasional visitor; we're only performing a thing, and in that as well, imho, the people performing the MA are again, are far more important than the MA.

I'll briefly address the following...

*Parents: Parents don't have to tolerate anything when it concerns their child/children. They've earned that right, and therefore, their the ones who allow their child/children to partake in my dojo or at our Hombu. As a parent, I'll decide what I'm going to allow my children to be exposed to, and not some Sensei or the like. While the MA is becoming important to my child/children, I'll allow it or I won't for the sake of my child/children across the board. Again, the MA is not the only thing that matters and the MA is just a thing, imho.

**Student: Students occupy the inner sanctum of any dojo, and in that, they practice and learn the MA. Having said that, the student, both children and adults, are the ones who want to learn the MA; whatever it might be. However, the student doesn't have to join any given dojo if that student doesn't want to for personal as well as professional reason(s). What ever phobia a student might or might not have; it's very important to that student, therefore, I feel that it's much more important than the MA as a whole. Learning the MA is a want and not a need, and in that, understanding that the students perceptions are those of that student and not the Sensei.

***Administration: Truly, the administrator is there to drive the bottom line profitable; to stay in the black and not in the red. Administrators are fire-fighters, in that, they solve one fire [complaints, etc] at a time. Having their pulse on the heart-beat of the dojo is critical because the best fire-fighters control any said fire before it becomes out of hand. If a parent is complaining about a Sensei who leads an alternate lifestyle, the administration needs to gather the necessary and pertinent facts to come to a final ruling/decision, and then move on because any dissension unchecked takes a lot away from the training of the MA. Concentration is key to learning but how can one learn if one's not concentrating on what one's doing; training/learning the MA.

Not every decision is easy for a parent, student, and/or administration, however, decisions must be made no matter how popular they may or may not be, therefore the MA suffers from time to time. I care more about the people than I do the MA, and the MA is a very, very important part of my life, but it's a want...it's just a thing.

Edited August 13, 2012 by sensei8

[darksoul]

I still stand by my opinion that, short of drug abuse/alcoholism, "alternative" lifestyles should not be a factor. If they are a good and knowledgeable instructor, what they do outside the dojo should not matter. That is unless it is being brought into the dojo in a disruptive/problematic way.

[DWx]

All that matters in a dojo is the martial arts. I think that says it all.

Respectfully I disagree. Why? In any dojo, imho, the MA is not all that matters because the MA is just a part of what's tangible within the dojo, albeit, the MA is the primary source of why any karateka is there.

Nonetheless, we're people and in that, we're so different. From the Sensei to the Sempai to the Kohai to the parents, and to the occasional visitor; we're only performing a thing, and in that as well, imho, the people performing the MA are again, are far more important than the MA.

I'll briefly address the following...

*Parents: Parents don't have to tolerate anything when it concerns their child/children. They've earned that right, and therefore, their the ones who allow their child/children to partake in my dojo or at our Hombu. As a parent, I'll decide what I'm going to allow my children to be exposed to, and not some Sensei or the like. While the MA is becoming important to my child/children, I'll allow it or I won't for the sake of my child/children across the board. Again, the MA is not the only thing that matters and the MA is just a thing, imho.

**Student: Students occupy the inner sanctum of any dojo, and in that, they practice and learn the MA. Having said that, the student, both children and adults, are the ones who want to learn the MA; whatever it might be. However, the student doesn't have to join any given dojo if that student doesn't want to for personal as well as professional reason(s). What ever phobia a student might or might not have; it's very important to that student, therefore, I feel that it's much more important than the MA as a whole. Learning the MA is a want and not a need, and in that, understanding that the students perceptions are those of that student and not the Sensei.

***Administration: Truly, the administrator is there to drive the bottom line profitable; to stay in the black and not in the red. Administrators are fire-fighters, in that, they solve one fire [complaints, etc] at a time. Having their pulse on the heart-beat of the dojo is critical because the best fire-fighters control any said fire before it becomes out of hand. If a parent is complaining about a Sensei who leads an alternate lifestyle, the administration needs to gather the necessary and pertinent facts to come to a final ruling/decision, and then move on because any dissension unchecked takes a lot away from the training of the MA. Concentration is key to learning but how can one learn if one's not concentrating on what one's doing; training/learning the MA.

Not every decision is easy for a parent, student, and/or administration, however, decisions must be made no matter how popular they may or may not be, therefore the MA suffers from time to time. I care more about the people than I do the MA, and the MA is a very, very important part of my life, but it's a want...it's just a thing.

Interesting and I agree somewhat to not having to expose your child to something if you don't want to or that the administrator has to think about the business. However I've always been taught to leave everything at the door when I come to the dojang to train. Whatever I or any of my fellow students choose to do in our spare time remains there, out of the dojang environment. If its not illegal or not seriously morally wrong (and the two often overlap) and if it is not affecting you, then what business is it of yours to decide that what someone does in their spare time disqualifies them from teaching? No-one should really be exposed to it (whatever it may be) anyway. All instructors, whether they lead an alternative lifestyle or a more conventional one, should be focusing on one thing only and that is teaching.

It seems a little prejudiced to me for a parent to refuse to have their child taught be somebody because of the lifestyle they lead if it has no impact on their ability to teach and they keep their personal life to themselves. Or for the administrator to deny a person to teach because of how they choose to live their life. TBH it's discrimination. In the workplace and in other environments there are laws about that kind of thing.

[Dobie1979]

Everyone is entitled to thier opinion and they can spend thier money where they see fit. I have a brother who is homosexual and if someone didn't want to take thier kids to his school because of that they would be missing out on a great person. Who knows maybe one day when I start a school people won't send their kids to my school because I have blue eyes and have a polish last name.

[darksoul]

It seems a little prejudiced to me for a parent to refuse to have their child taught be somebody because of the lifestyle they lead if it has no impact on their ability to teach and they keep their personal life to themselves. Or for the administrator to deny a person to teach because of how they choose to live their life. TBH it's discrimination. In the workplace and in other environments there are laws about that kind of thing.

This is exactly the point I've been trying to make. It's bigotry, plain and simple.