Kampfringen..medieval battle grappling

[Zoodles]

I'm posting this up after a request on a thread I made in the Weapons forum on European sword techniques.

Years of bad history have conditioned us to think that the knights as lumbering idiots who somehow, despite 1000 years of nonstop warfare against each other and all thier neighbours, never learned how to fight. They are depicted as crude iron clad dolts and bullies, a sad contrast to the lethal, honorable and well trained warriors of the east.

Its all bunk of course.

European knights were highly trained professional fighting men who fought and defeated a wide range of enemies and developed a vast array of martial arts that suited thier needs.

The grappling arts of medieval Europe are a varied as the people themselves are. The best documented are the arts we collectively call ringen or "grappling". The more sportive forms are known as "Ringkunst" and the more combative forms are known as "Kampfringen" which translates to "Battle grappling". The line between the the two is very nebulous, and seperation is based less on forms and more on intent. If you fought with the intent to kill, it was kampfringen, if you fought with the intent to play it was ringkunst. The people of period stressed it was potentially lethal to mix up the two intents.

Medieval Knights believed that grappling was the core of all fighting and upon the beginning of thier training (usually in childhood, around the age of 7) they would recieve a comprehensive education in grappling. They would learn jointlocks, throws, takedown, how to deal with a weapon when you are unarmed and how to integrate grappling with weapon use. If there are any groundfighting styles, the authors of the manuscripts we use to reconstruct these styles did not record them, and in any case had something of a bias against them.

Here are some vids showing some of the work being done to reconstruct Kampfringen and its related arts. These techniques are drawn right from manuscripts we call "Fechtbuchs" or "fight books". These manuscripts detail an exceptional array of martial arts. They were often written by the same men who used the techniques in lethal combat. For instance, the manuscript I study is known Flos Duelletorum and the man who wrote it was a fighting man by the name of Fiore Dei Liberi. Fiore fought at least 5 lethal duels, fought in war and trained several very eminent italian condottiere to fight duels with other well known men.

Here are some vids on the techniques

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJMKG9ru9U0&feature=related

[Wastelander]

Thanks for posting this--I've read through some bits and pieces of old European martial arts manuals and I always thought that the grappling looked very much like a mixture of judo and wrestling. In seeing the techniques applied in those videos, I can definitely see the resemblance--I saw koshi guruma, tsuri goshi, kata guruma, osoto gari, ko-uchi gari and many more throws that exist in judo, as well as techniques like the suplex and high crotch lift that exist in wrestling. All that said, I think it is really interesting to see how grappling developed all over the world and still came up with very similar techniques.

After watching those videos, I do have a question. Do you know if the people who developed these modern interpretations of the grappling found in those manuals had any grappling experience or did they start from scratch using the books?

[ShoriKid]

The answer to that Wastelander would be...yes.

Some of the people working on reconstructing old fight techniques have backgrounds in judo/jj/wrestling etc. Some do not. It really depends on the individual study group. And you'll see a mix of prior experience and no experience in a lot of groups as well.

European martial arts is sort of in a wild west period right now. There isn't a lot of "orthodoxy" out there, just fight manuals and people trying to test out the direction and techniques of the old masters.

[tallgeese]

Very interesting. Again, thanks for posting. As with many of the comments on the videos themselves, it's interesting to see the similarities in this and eastern arts despite no obvious influence on each other during period. Largely I'm sure to the fact that there are only so many ways to manipulate a human body.

Glad to have you aboard. I think you'll find that the people that float around here at KF will be very receptive to such things.

[Evil Dave]

Thanks for posting, it's nice to see these fighting styles getting a serious look.

[Zoodles]

After watching those videos, I do have a question. Do you know if the people who developed these modern interpretations of the grappling found in those manuals had any grappling experience or did they start from scratch using the books?

Some do, some do not. Most of the videos I have posted up are from a group in Poland that specialises in Ringen and have backgrounds in Wrestling and Judo. Since this stuff is still very obscure, it is only very recently that we have begun attracting the attention of mainstream martial artists who can bring in thier experience and training to the material. Until now, most of the work has actually been done by scholars and hobbyists with little background in grappling and martial arts. You can imagine how great it looked. Anyone who is honest in this community will tell you that as a whole we are still only one (small) step above backyard ninjers in terms of our training..but things ARE improving, and improving quickly.

[darksoul]

Awesome post! I really enjoyed those vids.

Thanks!

[Drew]

In case anyone is interested the site wiktenauer.com has the biggest index of manuals I have been able to find. To anyone particularly interested in ringen, I recommend starting on this page: http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Fiore_de%27i_Liberi

[Zoodles]

Another good place to to look is the ringen section of the huge and gorgeously illuminated manuscript of Paulus Hector Mair

http://dfg-viewer.de/show/?set%5Bimage%5D=475&set%5Bzoom%5D=default&set%5Bdebug%5D=0&set%5Bdouble%5D=0&set%5Bmets%5D=http%3A%2F%2Fdaten.digitale-sammlungen.de%2F~db%2Fmets%2Fbsb00006570_mets.xml

[Drew]

Easier to digest and partial English translation of the aforementioned at: http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Paulus_Hector_Mair

You kobudo-types may also find the section on fighting with a grain sickle to be of some interest.