Brazilian VS Japanese Jiu-Jitsu

[darksoul]

So I'm thinking of starting Jiu-Jitsu, I just don't know if I want to go towards the Brazilian side or the Japanese side.

I'm also thinking of trying out Aikido and Aiki Ju-Jitsu.

Thoughts? Opinions?

[ps1]

I hold a 2nd degree black belt in Aiki JuJitsu with 8 years of training in the art. I hold a brown belt in Gracie Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu with 9 years in the art. Here's the Cliff's Notes of my observations.

What are your goals?

In Japanese Jiu-Jitsu systems you will find it much more organized. There will be alot of defenses for standing attacks. You'll learn throws, but they are usually not taught or practiced in the depth you would find in Judo or BJJ. Usually, there is little to no live practice of techniques, but this can vary from school to school. Some have tons of sparring, others have absolutely none. The techniques are usually OK for self defense, but are rarely practice in an uncooperative manner. Heavy emphasis is placed on aesthetics with a huge focus on form...this is not to be confused with proper body mechanics...rather how the move looks. focused on about Ranks are earned with a similar frequency to Karate.The average black belt takes about 4 to 6 years.

In BJJ there are some differences between schools. The fundamental techniques of the art are the same from one school to the next. However, you will find a sport school usually has extras such as the upside down guard, 50/50, and such. More "fighting" oriented schools will focus more on takedowns and remaining on top position. Again, they will teach guard and stuff from the bottom, but will not usually be as skilled here as they are from the top position. "Self Defense" oriented BJJ tends to teach defenses against punches, kicks, standing grabs, and weapons in addition to everything else. In addition, they tend to have better closed guards than "fight oriented" schools. Each one focuses on takedowns in a similar manner. Wrestling and Judo style takedowns are interweaved with an emphasis on easy to execute and high percentage. The biggest focus is function over form, with the importance being on using the body to make the technique work, rather than how the technique looks. For this reason, a person may learn a move several different ways while training over a number of years. It is up to that person to learn what works best for them. Some, but not all, emphasis is put on being able to defeat people of a lower rank than yourself. Ranks take a long time to earn. The average person training just 2 or 3 days per week will probably take 10 to 12 years to earn a black belt. Because of this, it is not unusual to see a purple and brown belts teaching.

Beware the "MMA" school that does not have an instructor who specializes in BJJ (any BJJ instructor WILL be able to tell you their lineage and produce proof of rank, there are no exceptions to this). They may know submissions and such, but will not know them in near the depth of a BJJ trained artist.

In the end it's up to what you want.

Structure, Formalized, Lot's of standing one step sparring and throws, traditional weapons defense (sword ect...) and some weapons use, lots of aesthetics...go with the Japanese systems

Competitions, fast paced, informal, lots of sparring, integrated self defense over time, very long waits between ranks function over form....go with BJJ

[darksoul]

I'm not looking for competition, just to fill the holes I have from Shaolin Kempo. I'd be doing this along side my Kempo, so getting a black belt is not really important. Took me nearly 7 years to get my black belt in Kempo and I'm more than happy with that

Although... another black belt... *ponder*

Looks like I might have to go with BJJ, but more of a fighting form. I don't so much care about the sport aspect of it.

Thanks for the info!

[darksoul]

So I've looked around and called a few places in Montreal, there are a few Gracie schools with direct lineage to the Gracie brothers but they charge an arm and a leg. I mean McDojo prices.

I also did a bit more research. BJJ is interesting, but I can't see myself doing it. I'm not a wrestler. Being slight of frame, I can wriggle out of most holds fairly easily and my strikes are focused enough to find pressure points if I'm really stuck.

So Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is out for me.

I might actually go for Aikido. While it's not a grappling art, I feel it will add to my Shaolin Kempo and make me a better fighter.

I haven't fully decided yet. We'll see.

[MasterPain]

I also did a bit more research. BJJ is interesting, but I can't see myself doing it. I'm not a wrestler. Being slight of frame, I can wriggle out of most holds fairly easily and my strikes are focused enough to find pressure points if I'm really stuck.

Have you tested this theory against a decent grappler?

[ShoriKid]

So I've looked around and called a few places in Montreal, there are a few Gracie schools with direct lineage to the Gracie brothers but they charge an arm and a leg. I mean McDojo prices.

I also did a bit more research. BJJ is interesting, but I can't see myself doing it. I'm not a wrestler. Being slight of frame, I can wriggle out of most holds fairly easily and my strikes are focused enough to find pressure points if I'm really stuck.

So Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is out for me.

Most full time BJJ schools will offer multiple classes a day, usually 6 or 7 days a week. And, for the monthly price you train all you want or can stand.

As to slight of frame and wriggling out of most holds fairly easily, I'm sorry, but I really doubt that when you hit the ground. Size matters even more on the ground when you don't have skill.

Find someone who's done a bit of BJJ and spend a few hours rolling with them. It will open your eyes to a lot of things.

[ps1]

I also did a bit more research. BJJ is interesting, but I can't see myself doing it. I'm not a wrestler. Being slight of frame, I can wriggle out of most holds fairly easily and my strikes are focused enough to find pressure points if I'm really stuck.

As someone who's been on the road you're on, I can tell you you're wrong about your bjj assumptions. Wrestlers actually tend to suck at BJJ and don't usually train long enough to get good. This is because they train too hard and get injured or simply can't cope with getting beaten by smaller, weaker people. Smaller people actually tend to have the best jiu-jitsu because they can't depend on strength to bail them out of a bad situation. Additionally, being wriggely doesn't really get you far against someone good...pressure points are useless.

Keep in mind that I wrote a 10 page thesis on "Why Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is Ineffective." I talked about the same things everyone else does...multiple attackers, getting hurt landing on the ground, pressure points, eye gouging, groin striking ect...That was back in 1997 when I graduated high school. Here I am 16 years later getting ready for my black belt in BJJ. My point is I made decisions by just watching it. I hadn't experienced it. After being in the war, I started and never looked back. All I can say is I was wrong and blind on all my comments.

What you're correct on is the cost. BJJ tends to be very expensive. I'm not entirely sure why. I think alot of practitioners try to make it their sole job. Personally, I do not. I only charge $65/month. But the school where I trained was $120/month. It is pretty common unfortunately.

Lastly, despite my personal biases, I wish you luck in your training. All that really matters is YOU ARE HAPPY in your training.

[darksoul]

I have gone up against good grapplers. Sometimes they beat me, sometimes I beat them. I think I might just not be a grappler. It doesn't feel natural to me.

My wife will be joining me in Aikido, and I will continue towards my 2nd Dan in Kempo. I'll never stop Kempo, that style.

Thanks for all your input guys!

[pittbullJudoka]

You say you have basically no grappling experince and you can beat a good grappler? No to put your training partners skills down but they aren't that good if someone with no experince can hang with them. I thought I was a good grappler mostly self tuaght until I went for a free bjj class prior to training and I got smoked by guys who had been traing less than half the time I had been.

Go against a newly minted purple in bjj that's were in my opinion you are starting to get good, and see how you fair. I see myself as a decent blue belt and I get smoked by a purple that I train with. I can hang close to him but he does what he wants when he wants.

Grappling does not feel natural to you because it's outside your comfort zone. Given time and training in a grappling art and you'll see how it will complement your Kempo.

Best of luck in your future training.

[darksoul]

You say you have basically no grappling experince and you can beat a good grappler? No to put your training partners skills down but they aren't that good if someone with no experince can hang with them. I thought I was a good grappler mostly self tuaght until I went for a free bjj class prior to training and I got smoked by guys who had been traing less than half the time I had been.

Go against a newly minted purple in bjj that's were in my opinion you are starting to get good, and see how you fair. I see myself as a decent blue belt and I get smoked by a purple that I train with. I can hang close to him but he does what he wants when he wants.

Grappling does not feel natural to you because it's outside your comfort zone. Given time and training in a grappling art and you'll see how it will complement your Kempo.

Best of luck in your future training.

Very well said and points taken!

I might give it a try if I can justify spending the money on it. I've just found out that one of the BJJ places I contacted have a Judo instructor who is currently at the Olympics: Alexandre Edmon

It would be awesome to train with an Olympic athlete.

I'm not dismissing BJJ yet. It is a powerful style and, as you said, will compliment my Kempo.

Thanks for all the tips, I really do appreciate it