McDojo vs Hobby

[xo-karate]

Just read the thread about black belt not being 1 dan and so on. There was a question about why does a club have to get all the money from every "service".

Here in Finland we are new to "McSport" but it's getting more and more popular. Sport clubs were run by societies, not by owners. And coaches or trainers were moms and dads or avid persons.

What are the pros for having a "professional" sensei? (Do they really have any more professional skills or is it just the same traditional development that happens with hobbies getting first dan and getting in to instructing classes?)

[DoctorQui]

I suppose, in a nutshell, being an expert Karateka is a skill like any other that can be used to make money, whether you are running a school for yourself or working for someone else.

Karate (or any martial art) is one of those things that attracts a lot of interest from the young. Youngsters, imo, at a certain age almost always go to Football or Martial Arts. By attracting such a lot of interest, it can generate revenue which can drop off quite dramatically when kids get bored with it (having realised that they don't break boards on their first session).

I suppose, like Gyms do now, the easiest way for a full time Instructor to ensure that they maintain revenue is have a 12 month contract where a parent (or student) pays a direct debit. As discussed in other threads, the Karate school can then start legal stuff if the parent stops paying because the child gets bored. As unscrupulous as it sounds, it is actually very business savvy.

My only issue with the Professional Instructor v the Hobby Instructor is that the emphasis for wanting to teach shifts from wanting to impart knowledge and produce good Karateka to simply wanting to make as much money as quickly as possible!

[jaypo]

That's something that drew me to my sensei. He doesn't have a "school". He has "students". I met him after he taught a "self defense" class at my gym. We talked, and he informed me that as long as I was a member of the gym, the training was free. I was skeptical, but after taking a few classes, it was obvious that he is doing it for the love of teaching. He seems to love when his students get better, which is how I think it should be. I pay the gym $21.00 per month because I elected to take "extra classes". But I can literally train 7 days a week for as long as I want with him. Or I could choose to do it for free.

Most of the other instructors around here charge over $90.00 per month for a set class schedule of 45 minutes. I can train unlimited for $21.00. I can purchase my own equipment (not required to get it from him). He gave me a training sword as a gift. With Gret, it's not about the money. It's about sharing his knowledge with his students.

[DoctorQui]

That's something that drew me to my sensei. He doesn't have a "school". He has "students". I met him after he taught a "self defense" class at my gym. We talked, and he informed me that as long as I was a member of the gym, the training was free. I was skeptical, but after taking a few classes, it was obvious that he is doing it for the love of teaching. He seems to love when his students get better, which is how I think it should be. I pay the gym $21.00 per month because I elected to take "extra classes". But I can literally train 7 days a week for as long as I want with him. Or I could choose to do it for free.

Most of the other instructors around here charge over $90.00 per month for a set class schedule of 45 minutes. I can train unlimited for $21.00. I can purchase my own equipment (not required to get it from him). He gave me a training sword as a gift. With Gret, it's not about the money. It's about sharing his knowledge with his students.

Sounds good! What style does he teach?

[xo-karate]

In McDojo if it is a franchise you might need to go to an instructor course to get a certificate and maybe follow a curriculum (Thinking of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu). This might be some quality control? (But is expensive...)

Hobbyist is just a youngster grown in to sport and quality depends on senseis ability to use assistant coaches/instructors. Being a good karateka does not mean that one is a good teacher/instructor.

I am not sure that traditional method of teaching karate is the best on - it was developed for teaching large groups - like using the basic form for basic techniques.

BUT I don't know how they teach in McDojos. Is the money used to develop teaching methods and educating instructors?

[Evil Dave]

Having been part of McDojo for the first part of my MA carrier, along with an independent 'for profit' school and now a small community centre school, the real difference is not so much how the business is run, but the instructor. I have also seen this in other industries, and everybody likes to kick the big guy ~ in scuba it's PADI, in MA it's the McDojo. They are not all bad places, some are just not pointed in the right direction.

At the McDojo, the head instructor was a great teacher and had attracted a number of people to assist him. Just after a while he let the business end take over and his compass was not pointing North any longer. He is no longer teaching karate. I am still friends with a number of people from that McDojo.

The independent school is run real well under it's current head instructor and next year will host it's tenth anniversary {I'll have to travel across the country to attend this...}. I do think their fees are a little high, but there is a cadre of high quality instructors there teaching everything from Karate, Kung Fu, Self Defence, Fitness and more. They do this with two store fronts in the same strip mall, and attract good instructors. They do take the time for instructor development, student mentoring, retreats, guest instructors, and they also travel outwards.

Now I am at a small community centre school in a town that is the second last community on a dead end highway {we call it a highway...} on the far end of an island. I got here as the head instructor was retiring from teaching after 30 years. These people are good people, they have just been sheltered and isolated for so long they do not know what is out there and available to them. I am slowly bringing in the outside world and trying hard to bring them out of the back water to see what else they can do for themselves and our students. I'm trying to meld the best of both worlds. If anybody's lived in a small semi-isolated town you know what I'm talking about.

Three different scenarios, with good instructors at each location. It's all about the instructor, not just how good they are, but where they are in life, what are they doing for themselves and personal development, etc. This is what makes the real difference in a school.

Just my two cents...

[FangPwnsAll7]

I have a feeling I'm currently going to a McDojo. The belt tests are overcharged and are held every 2 to 3 months. I do take all of the belt tests though, because my parents want me to be 'awesome' or something... Well, I think my instructor teaches for the students. He said some something to me a few classes ago that was along the lines of "Back, when I was your age (14, I'm guessing, since that's my age), I got in a fight in school." He also said that he got cut from the face. Then his parents told him to take TSD, and he loved it ever since. And that's why my instructor teaches.

I actually don't think it matters if you go to a McDojo or not, as long as the instructor has some experience with the form they are teaching.

[darksoul]

I actually don't think it matters if you go to a McDojo or not, as long as the instructor has some experience with the form they are teaching.

It definitely does depend on the instructor.

I would still stay away from the Karate For Kids chain of TKD. I've heard nothing but horrible things from them.

[Wastelander]

I have a feeling I'm currently going to a McDojo. The belt tests are overcharged and are held every 2 to 3 months. I do take all of the belt tests though, because my parents want me to be 'awesome' or something... Well, I think my instructor teaches for the students. He said some something to me a few classes ago that was along the lines of "Back, when I was your age (14, I'm guessing, since that's my age), I got in a fight in school." He also said that he got cut from the face. Then his parents told him to take TSD, and he loved it ever since. And that's why my instructor teaches.

I actually don't think it matters if you go to a McDojo or not, as long as the instructor has some experience with the form they are teaching.

It might matter, and it might not. People get very angry about McDojos, in general, but just because they hate them doesn't mean they aren't right for somebody out there--just like lots of people hate McDonalds but they still sell billions of cheeseburgers.

Some "McDojos" actually DO teach effective arts, and do it well, but because they are trying to make money off of it they get the McDojo label. The dojo I first started training at was a commercial dojo--the instructor had his main school and two satellite locations run by black belt students of his, and there were fees for testing and belts and extra classes, and there were contracts (that part was actually required by the government, though)--but they taught (and still teach) solid technique, and they teach it very well. I have moved on to a different style and different training methods and concepts, but it worked very well for me at the time and I loved it.

Some McDojos, however, teach ineffective arts or they teach them very poorly. If you want some exercise, build some self esteem and maybe learn some cool tricks then this is perfectly fine, so long as you are willing to pay for it. That's all a lot of people want out of martial arts, so this works for them--there is no contact, typically, so there is very little risk of injury, pain or discomfort, and they get to do some neat looking stuff while they exercise and have some fun.

I will admit that I hate McDojos that are out there to make money AND teach ineffective martial arts--in my opinion that is simply fraudulent and gives martial arts a very bad reputation--but I understand that, for some people, it meets a need. I also understand that if you are a good instructor and you teach good martial arts, then you are free to do everything you want to make money at it if people are willing to pay for your instruction. McDojos will always exist, and we can choose to constantly be angry with them and try to tear them down, or we can simply focus on our training and accept it.

[DoctorQui]

I think that simply trying to make money, or career out of teaching Karate doesn't make it a McDojo. For me, the biggest McD red flag is the over pricing of things, I have seen some chains charge 100% on the smaller clubs/instructors. A Gi that would cost you £25 if you bought it yourself, costs £40 + from them and you MUST buy theirs otherwise you cant join/grade or whatever. Charging astonomical monthly fees for set amounts of lessons that you can only pay by signing up to monthly contracted direct debits, guaranteeing black belt within any set time, attending Dojos where you have a ratio of, say, 15-20 students to one instructor (where you are clearly not getting your monies worth.

These are the red flags for me. Making money is what we are here for and noone should be criticised for doing it or wanting to do it. Its how the money is made that should be criticised.

IMO!