Finally starting the "Shaolin" portion of my train

[darksoul]

Where I studied Shaolin Kempo, it's almost 100% Japanese until black belt. Once you reach your first Dan, you move into the Shaolin forms and techniques exclusively. From what I've experience, it's straight Kung Fu.

The forms I'm expected to learn at this Dan (which is weird saying in the context of Chinese martial arts) are:

Circle of the Tiger

Swift Tigers

Hansuki

Northern and Southern Ninglese

I haven't started learning them yet, but I'm very much looking forward to it.

[DWx]

I don't really know much about Kempo so forgive me if this is a noob question

but how do the Japanese forms and techniques compare to the Chinese ones? If the mechanics and what not are very different, seems a bit odd to have you learn one thing then suddenly switch over. Almost like you're discarding everything you've done so far.

[darksoul]

The Japanese forms are more linear, much like traditional Karate. In Kempo, we add some strikes I don't believe are in Japanese karate (chicken wrist, immortal man, leopard paw, etc...) but the forms, until later somewhat mimic Karate.

In later belts we incorporate more Chinese movements in forms such as the Two-man Fist Set, Stature of the Crane, Kata 5 and Kata 6.

Now things are getting even more circular. Lots of deflection and fluidity of movement.

We definitely don't discard anything, and oddly, it seems like a very fluid and efficient transition.

[DWx]

k thanks for explaining

As a result then, do the higher belts' and blackbelts' technique differ noticeably from those of lower grades? So say when a blackbelt is sparring a low grade, will they end up striking and blocking differently? Also why do you learn the Japanese techniques first and not the other way around?

Sorry for all the questions, just interested

[FangPwnsAll7]

Good luck, darksoul. I might look into taking this when I'm done with TSD. I'm sure you'll like learning those new forms.

[darksoul]

k thanks for explaining

You bet!

As a result then, do the higher belts' and blackbelts' technique differ noticeably from those of lower grades?

The techniques themselves, yes. There are less front punches, and straight kicks and start revolving around the 5 animals. Snake techniques will snap at pressure points and soft tissue and coil around an opponent. Tiger techniques will use rakes and sheer aggression. Leopard techniques will be fast combos, etc... All these are trained from the very beginning, it's just they really start being put into practice at black.

So say when a blackbelt is sparring a low grade, will they end up striking and blocking differently?

1st and 2nd Dans, not so much. When a 3rd or 4th dan step in, you'll usually see them standing open handed with much more circular blocks. Generally, black belts do not spar pre-black students. 1st dans will spar 1st or 2nd browns but rarely below that.

Also why do you learn the Japanese techniques first and not the other way around?

Quite simply because they become more effective more quickly if someone has no previous training. Basically they are easier to put into practice in the real world.

Example - It's easier to block with this early on:

than it is to block with this:

or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT9mbYwbTow

Sorry for all the questions, just interested

You bet! I love talking about Shaolin Kempo! It really has become the style for me and I am very proud to have reached black belt in this system.

[darksoul]

Good luck, darksoul. I might look into taking this when I'm done with TSD. I'm sure you'll like learning those new forms.

Thanks! I'm very much looking forward to it

I'm going to go train tomorrow actually. Stupid work keeps me fairly busy so I end up training on my own most of the time.

[DWx]

So say when a blackbelt is sparring a low grade, will they end up striking and blocking differently?

1st and 2nd Dans, not so much. When a 3rd or 4th dan step in, you'll usually see them standing open handed with much more circular blocks. Generally, black belts do not spar pre-black students. 1st dans will spar 1st or 2nd browns but rarely below that.

Any reason why blackbelt's don't spar the lower grades? I've always found it a good way of learning for the lower grade if they spar a blackbelt as they can see how they should be moving and what works and what doesn't work.

Also why do you learn the Japanese techniques first and not the other way around?

Quite simply because they become more effective more quickly if someone has no previous training. Basically they are easier to put into practice in the real world.

Example - It's easier to block with this early on:

than it is to block with this:

or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT9mbYwbTow

I can see it would be easier to learn the Japanese first but how does that work with teaching body mechanics and power generation? As the Chinese movements are more circular and the Japanese ones more linear.

Interestingly the 2nd link kind of matches up to some of the blocks we do in TKD although we'd do them in a more "Japanese" way.

[darksoul]

Any reason why blackbelt's don't spar the lower grades? I've always found it a good way of learning for the lower grade if they spar a blackbelt as they can see how they should be moving and what works and what doesn't work.

Firstly, there weren't many in my dojo. I was the 6th or 7th, I think, and there is a black belt class that was run by Master Chryssolor. When a black belt was in the advanced class (blue to brown,) then they would spar lower ranks, but again, once you hit black, you'd go to the black belt class to learn all the newer stuff. I was with the dojo only about a month after reaching black until I moved cross-country, not sure how Master Paquette does it yet as I've only been to 1 class. Before moving, I still attended the advanced class and I sparred every rank.

I can see it would be easier to learn the Japanese first but how does that work with teaching body mechanics and power generation? As the Chinese movements are more circular and the Japanese ones more linear.

From my experience, it's just natural. The moves themselves are learned throughout the journey from white to black, they just get focused on at black, so the mechanics and power generation are worked on for a few years before black.

Interestingly the 2nd link kind of matches up to some of the blocks we do in TKD although we'd do them in a more "Japanese" way.

Cool! I saw some very similar moves when I was at the BC Open tournament last year.

[darksoul]

Learned a new black belt technique today. It's a Kempo based on the Monkey style. Very very very cool. Fast, intricate, but devastating.

LOVE IT!