10 year old Black Belts!

[Harkon72]

In our class we have a 15 year old 2nd Dan, she has been training from the age of 6. My Sensei's daughter is a 1st Dan, she is 11. She will have to wait many years to go for 2nd Dan, even though she has known Karate from the cradle.

[Dobbersky]

My son, aged 2 right now, will have to wait until he's 16 to take adult grades. Although he will know everything I know and more probably before he's 12.

If he's to head the Dojo after I've gone I need him to earn the respect of the seniors too and if all the kids have to wait then so does my son.

I'm sorry but it seems that the Korean arts seem to lead the way in child Dan grades at the same level as adults. Does that mean you will teach a child the same lethal techniques as an adult AND expect them to know its not for playing with their mates at school etc.

I stand by my ethos/ethics. I will NEVER give a full blackbelt to anyone under 16.

Edited October 15, 2012 by Dobbersky

[Harkon72]

I agree, I think a pre-Dan is all they should achieve by the age of 16. They are not old enough to entertain the true spirit of lethal Karate. I think at 16, they should learn all the Kata again with the true Bunkai, well enough until they reach Shodan again. Maybe as much training to be 21 before they are given a Black Belt. The Japanese word "Dan" means "Man" or "Adult" after all.

[bushido_man96]

My son, aged 2 right now, will have to wait until he's 15 to take adult grades. Although he will know everything I know and more probably before he's 12.

If he's to head the Dojo after I've gone I need him to earn the respect of the seniors too and if all the kids have to wait then so does my son.

I'm sorry but it seems that the Korean arts seem to lead the way in child Dan grades at the same level as adults. Does that mean you will teach a child the same lethal techniques as an adult AND expect them to know its not for playing with their mates at school etc.

I stand by my ethos/ethics. I will NEVER give a full blackbelt to anyone under 16.

You say you won't give a full dan grade to anyone under 16, but your son will have all that adult, full dan grade knowledge by the time he is 12. Why make him wait? Or any other student? Will you make them wait, and then take a "full dan" test when they come of age, charging them more for that testing? Many would call that a "McDojo" ploy to gain more money. Or, you make them stay in the system at that age longer, therefore bringing more monthly dues out of them; another one of those money-seeking McDojo ploys. I'm not saying you run a McDojo; I know enough from your posts to know that quite the opposite is the case, Dobbersky. But, can you see what I am getting at in the "fight against child black belts" cause that keeps going on?

[sensei8]

Shindokan is no McDojo, however, we utilize the JBB. I was a JBB for just over 5 years, and in that, I couldn't rank up, per our By-Laws. I earned my Shodan when I was 18 years old...waited 16 months for my Nidan...then waited another 16 months for my Sandan.

Waiting in the JBB ranks for just over 5 years allowed me to learn requirements for Shodan thru Sandan.

[bushido_man96]

Shindokan is no McDojo, however, we utilize the JBB. I was a JBB for just over 5 years, and in that, I couldn't rank up, per our By-Laws. I earned my Shodan when I was 18 years old...waited 16 months for my Nidan...then waited another 16 months for my Sandan.

Waiting in the JBB ranks for just over 5 years allowed me to learn requirements for Shodan thru Sandan.

I think that's great that you got to continue learning requirements through the rank of sandan.

My question is, what the difference between knowing those requirements as a junior, and knowing them when you came of age to hold the rank? To me, it seems a formality of age, and not of passing on knowledge.

Unless I'm missing something that I would understand better being a Shindokan stylist, not knowing the intricacies of what you learned when you did.

[sensei8]

Shindokan is no McDojo, however, we utilize the JBB. I was a JBB for just over 5 years, and in that, I couldn't rank up, per our By-Laws. I earned my Shodan when I was 18 years old...waited 16 months for my Nidan...then waited another 16 months for my Sandan.

Waiting in the JBB ranks for just over 5 years allowed me to learn requirements for Shodan thru Sandan.

I think that's great that you got to continue learning requirements through the rank of sandan.

My question is, what the difference between knowing those requirements as a junior, and knowing them when you came of age to hold the rank? To me, it seems a formality of age, and not of passing on knowledge.

Unless I'm missing something that I would understand better being a Shindokan stylist, not knowing the intricacies of what you learned when you did.

The difference is night and day. However, the knowledge was passed on, BUT the By-Laws are the By-Laws, and in that, age tenure is a formality that Soke was unforgiving with.

My Dai-Soke could've just emphasized the three K's to an extraordinary level instead, but he allowed us to also learn the requirements. Remember, I hated it, but there was nothing I could do against the By-Laws, which were created by Soke and Dai-Soke.

Oh yeah...I've the ability to initiate change within the By-Laws as Kaicho, but I won't because I do see the value in the decision(s)of Soke and Dai-Soke, and in that, I do understand and respect them across the board.

Edited October 15, 2012 by sensei8

[bushido_man96]

I see what you are saying here, Bob. And I mean no disrespect to any organization that holds to their By-laws or traditions otherwise.

Its just tough for me to swallow when age is the restriction, and the reason why seems to end up being "just because."

[DoctorQui]

I stand by my ethos/ethics. I will NEVER give a full blackbelt to anyone under 16.

I applaud that. Even my own school, which is very good, has 10 year old black belts and there is one child who continues to progress beyond his ability but I think you get that in even the most reputable clubs!

[DWx]

Shindokan is no McDojo, however, we utilize the JBB. I was a JBB for just over 5 years, and in that, I couldn't rank up, per our By-Laws. I earned my Shodan when I was 18 years old...waited 16 months for my Nidan...then waited another 16 months for my Sandan.

Waiting in the JBB ranks for just over 5 years allowed me to learn requirements for Shodan thru Sandan.

I think that's great that you got to continue learning requirements through the rank of sandan.

My question is, what the difference between knowing those requirements as a junior, and knowing them when you came of age to hold the rank? To me, it seems a formality of age, and not of passing on knowledge.

Unless I'm missing something that I would understand better being a Shindokan stylist, not knowing the intricacies of what you learned when you did.

I'm with Brian on this one. No offence meant and I know you have to adhere to the By-Laws of your Hombu, but when you get down to it, what is the difference between the JBB rank and a normal BB rank? If you've learnt all the requirements and can perform to the standard expected, what is the difference really?

Often times I sometimes think that the JBB rank is a way of adults making themselves feel better that a kid got the same rank as they did.